Re: My situation

Which city/country is your consulate in?

I would think all records reside in Warsaw anyways. Its strange that the consulate told you they don't have it in the first place.

That's actually good news! I didn't think you could get it at all once your citizenship has been renounced.

In this case, its probably not faster to do it in Warsaw.

Either way, the consulate will send your case to Warsaw, and I would think the procedure is slightly different in a case like this. I'm not an expert, but my gut feeling is that this case will have to go through some form of "application for citizenship", not just "proof of citizenship". If the consulate says it can be done, then stick with them.

 

Though I don't know anything specific about revoked citizenships during the communist period, I know as a rule of thumb that current nations in Europe that were once under opressive regimes usually allow their former citizens to regain citizenship if they lost it due to certain reasons.

For example, ANYONE who lost German citizenship because of their religion or political ideas or anything along these lines (AND their decendants) is entitled to German citizenship. I don't see why Poland would be any different in this case either.

 

I can see how that can happen if someone was stripped of their citizenship, but how do they look at this if you personally explicitly renounced your citizenship.

 

Yes, but couldn't he apply for citizenship as if he never was a citizen?

He can get his (assuming that it's a male) father's citizenship back (theoretically) and then apply for his own confirmation of Polish citizenship as a foreign born son of Polish emigrants, one of which renounced citizenship (father having citizenship is stronger than on the mother, anyway).

Poland is not all-seeing and all-knowing. Chances are they won't know he was ever a citizen. You need to keep in mind that 1. they're underpaid government workers, 2. they're system is archaic as you have said.

Even if they did somehow find out, how's he to know that his mother renounced his citizenship when he was so young? It's not a perfect case IMO, but still a pretty solid one at that.

Disagree?

 

It seems like he has a good chance, since his father's citizenship was revoked by the governement, and not by the father himself. It is not clear though if the mother renounced her citizenships herself (including d7's citizenship), or because the government revoked it from them as well.

My question is more in a general sense though. I have an Uncle who sent in an application to Poland n the 80's to renounce his Polish citizenship for both him and my Aunt. They were not forced to do it because of a governemt order, they were just fed up with the hopelessness of Poland at the time and wanted to look to the future and embrace thier new country. I wonder if someone in that type of a situation can still get proof of Polish citizenship, or if they would need to re-apply, or if they simply need to wait for the President to approve the proof of citizenship application. It would seem that even people in my Uncle's situation may have a chance of getting proof of thier citizenship according to the information d7's has given us. Thoughts?

 

I would say based on d7's information, your uncle most probably is eligible as well. In both your uncle's case and d7's case, it might be a sound idea to double check and maybe speak with a different consulate (or embassy even I guess). D7 lives in Sweden I believe he/she said, so maybe maybe you can call the consulate here in the US and ask. My suggestion would be to call any/all of the consulates in the US. Chicago is obviously the most busy, thus you may not even get to speak with them. I have called the DC one several time and 50% of the time I get to speak with someone. They all have the same information, theoretically. You may even live near one - even better.

My point is, it's better to check and make sure the person d7 spoke with actually knew the law well, versus submitting an application to the president of Poland and having it denied based on misinformation.

Do we have any idea if the Polish government even can actually tell based on a file whether someone renounced citizenship versus renounced it by force essentially? I would assume that it's a blurry line, and if said they were all forced, they would have nothing to say otherwise.

One both good and bad thing about countries switching government types is that it is essentially a new country. Just like in USSR/Russia, things go missing, things don't match up, etc. So, there's no telling what concrete evidence they may or may not have...

 

d7,
The reason it will take 2 years is because you need to "apply" for citizenship, not just obtain "proof" of your citizenship.

Had your mother not renounced your citizenship when you were an infant, then the consulate would have told you to fill out "Wniosek o potwierdzenie posiadania obywatelstwa polskiego" (application for confirmation that you have Polish citizenship).
http://www.polishconsulateny.org/files/wniosek - poswiadczenie obywatelstwa(3).pdf

The consulate probably told you to fill out "wniosek o nadania obywatelstwa polskiego" (application to obtain Polish citizenship) instead because in thier eyes you currently do not hold Polish citizenship that can be confirmed, since it was renounced when you were a child.
http://www.polishconsulateny.org/doc/na ... elstwa.pdf

Essentially you would be put in the same queue as people that are trying to immigrate to Poland, in an effort to reverse your renouncement. The application for citizenship does take a long time. It seems that many people are trying to apply for Polish citizenship, and so the queue is very long.

This seems to be the only way to reverse your renouncement, after the age of 17 and a half. Had you filed an affidavit between the ages fo 16 and 17.5, then there would have been an easier way to reverse the renouncement. See below.

Regaining citizenship lost in childhood by Parents declaration
By affidavit executed before proper Polish authorities within 3 months after the birth of the child, parents can choose foreign citizenship for the child if the laws of the foreign country grant the child citizenship based on descent from the foreign parent. Such child looses Polish citizenship by parents’ declaration.
She/he can however regain Polish citizenship if he/she executes an affidavit expressing the will of becoming the citizen before proper Polish authorities after turning 16, but before 6 months to the legal age.

 

Double checking the information that the consulate gave you by confirming with another consulate is a great piece of advice. It could potentially save you 2 years in this case. If you have a bit of money to blow, it might be worth it to consult with an attorney to be sure.

 

What I've noticed in this process is that it's better to double and triple check everything, rather than wait for months to find out you did it wrong and either have to resubmit OR are just plain denied...

 

Is there somewhere I can go to read the eligibility rules for Polish citizenship in English?

I am assuming that my case will be fairly straight forward. Both my parents were born in Poland and my mother still has an expired Polish passport. Her mother is still alive and living in Poland. My father has some identification documentation but he arrived in Australia as a displaced person in 1949. I'm interested in learning more about the laws regarding citizens who lost their citizenship in the 1940-1952 (?? I can't remember the exact dates) period. Curiousgeorge, would you be able to help? Would my father be one of those stripped of citizenship?

 

I would recommend this forum for all your questions, to be honest. I knew zero about the process and through this forum I have learned more than I could have imagined about the process and laws of Polish citizenship. But here: http://www.polskiinternet.com/english/i ... tizen.html

In regard to citizenship, it all depends on when your parent(s) becam naturalized citizens of Australia. If they became naturalized prior to January of 1951, you're not a citizen. As long as ONE of them was not yet naturalized until after January of 1951, you can claim citizenship through that person. I just wouldn't recommend mentioning that one of your parents lost their citizenship. I don't know if it would really hurt you by saying it, but it's better safe than sorry and it's "additional information" that wouldn't be needed in processing your Confirmation of Polish Citizenship.

 

Thanks Alyehoud. I have seen that page (and many others like it), what I was really hoping to find was an English translation of the relevant statute.

I have read through the whole of this topic here and learned a great deal but not much about those who left during WWII. I agree with you and think I should probably just keep my father out of the picture altogether. I'm safe with my mother - she didn't migrate until 1961, has an expired passport and still has a mother and other family living in Poland.

 

I believe that's the best option for you...keep us updated

 

Re: Proof of Citizenship

Couldn't agree with you more about their pointless work habits.....

I received a letter in the post about 2 months ago from the processing office in Warsaw stating that i will have a final answer on my application by the 16th August.

Well the 16th August has come and gone, and guess what, i still don't have an answer!! Called them up to find out what is going on only to be told that they have no idea when it will be processed and that i just have t wait for it. I've been waiting 21 months for it!!

I don't understand what the point of sending a letter stating a date when a final decision will be made when blatantly it was never going to be done by that date!!

Do they actually work in this office????

 

It's almost worth it to fly there and do it yourself. At least then you only wait 8 weeks... or so they say.

 

Does anyone have concrete information on military service in Poland? I know some countries post charts based on your age of naturalization determines how long, if at all, you're required to do national service. I've tried to contact the consulate, but not surprisingly, they don't reply to emails, or answer the phones....