Gracias! I can see you know several languages, so you are forgiven...

 

Though it's been said before, this thread, in its entirety, is easily the best resource available on the internet to this whole process. So thank you all who have continuously contributed.

I am in the research phase of this process -- though based upon what I have read, I will likely hire a lawyer in Poland to handle my case directly. I was hoping to pick your brains for advice on what avenues to go down.

I'll try to keep my history brief: Both of my grandparents were born in Poland. My grandfather was born in 1919 and my grandmother 1926 (supposedly in a town named Neirznei, though I cannot find any record of this place in Poland or neighboring countries. If anyone recognizes this town, please help me out here!). My grandmother was taken to work in a concentration camp in Germany while she was a teenager and I'm told my grandfather fought in the war -- the assumption is he was in the Polish army but I have no confirmation of this.

My grandparents were apparently married (as indicated on the ship manifest upon their arrival in NY) prior to arriving in the US. They also had two children while in Germany, after the war. They left from Bremerhaven, Germany and arrived in NY in January 1951 (I have to say, my grandparents had incredible timing after reading all of these complicated laws).

Key pieces of info:
*My grandfather obtained a SSN in NY in 1951. My grandmother obtained hers as well in the 1970's. I have submitted requests for copies of their applications.
*Supposedly my grandfather had a green card. A lot of important documents were lost/stolen many years ago when their home was broken into.
*The only family I know of are my grandparents children. There was contact MANY years ago with my grandfather's brother but that has long since stopped and none of my aunts or uncles seem to have any information on extended family members.
*I'm told that neither of my grandparents ever became US citizens.
*I've submitted requests for copies of both their death certificates.
*I can easily obtain a copy of the ship manifest which lists their nationality as "Polish". I'm under the impression that when arriving at port, literally all the inspector did was ask where they were from so this is not proof of anything.
*My father (their son) was born in 1958 in the US and has not attempted to claim polish citizenship.

Ok so this leads me to my major questions:
(1) How do I go about researching Polish military records from WWII? If I am able to find anything on my grandfather, this would only prove he was a polish citizen at least at that point in time, correct?
(2) In order to prove my father inherited citizenship, I would have to prove that both of his parents were polish citizens at the time of his birth? Once I can prove that, I know I have to register his birth in poland and then apply for confirmation of citizenship before I can even begin the process for myself. Do I also have to obtain a passport for him as well or is that not necessary (considering he is pretty disinterested in this)?
(3) Do I need to prove BOTH of my grandparents were citizens, or would it be best to focus on only one (which one is the better route is to be determined) and work from there?
(4) Any suggestions on other documentation I should try to locate? Expired passports are extremely unlikely to be found so I have to take another approach. I'm hoping that some of the documentation I've requested will prove to be fruitful.

Thanks in advance! I know this was a long post but seriously, any advice or direction anyone can point me in would be fantastic. I've already researched much of the major sites and exhausted a lot of the resources like ancestry.com and rootsweb and familysearch.org. Plus it doesn't help that my polish last name is likened to Smith or Jones here in the US.

 

Firstly, as far as the town you're looking for, back then, a lot of towns had different names. Generally a Polish, German, and Yiddish one, depending on the residents of the town and location of the place. So, you may see if you can find any similar sounding ones using a soundex. JewishGen.org may be a good source for that.

(1) How do I go about researching Polish military records from WWII? If I am able to find anything on my grandfather, this would only prove he was a polish citizen at least at that point in time, correct?

I haven't done this myself, but I believe this can be done with the Consulate's help. Most consulates will help in finding out family information like that. But, as with all consulates, it takes longer than if you did it in Poland. It may show he was a citizen at one point (POSSIBLY) BUT, I do not think that it will be strong enough to claim citizenship based on. I don't remember who, but someone on this thread has received family Polish military records to my knowledge.

(2) In order to prove my father inherited citizenship, I would have to prove that both of his parents were polish citizens at the time of his birth? Once I can prove that, I know I have to register his birth in poland and then apply for confirmation of citizenship before I can even begin the process for myself. Do I also have to obtain a passport for him as well or is that not necessary (considering he is pretty disinterested in this)?

Polish citizenship is really only passed down patrilinially and thus, you only need to prove your grandfather's citizenship to show your father and yourself are Polish citizens (among other things). You need to have something like an old passport (issued by Poland) for your grandfather. You don't need to do anything for your father since basically you're just asking the Polish government to state that you are a citizen (versus applying for it) and you always have been.

(3) Do I need to prove BOTH of my grandparents were citizens, or would it be best to focus on only one (which one is the better route is to be determined) and work from there?

As said, you're paternal grandfather. I doubt it would hurt for you to throw in some stuff about his wife if it's easy to get just to further your case, but alone it's worthless as far as this is concerned.

(4) Any suggestions on other documentation I should try to locate? Expired passports are extremely unlikely to be found so I have to take another approach. I'm hoping that some of the documentation I've requested will prove to be fruitful.

You need your grandfather's naturalization certificate. You say he didn't naturalize in the US, so you need to PROVE that he didn't become one, at least until 1951. (Women could pass citizenship along after 1951 citizenship law, btw) To prove this, you need to contact USCIS and submit a form (see previous posts somewhere in this thread of Part 1) called something like D-469 and request (after several months) on the phone that they send a "certified no record document" to you if nothing is found. This states he never applied for citizenship. By the way, this takes about a year and a half

Also, based on the info you provided, it all looks pretty good. The hardest thing for you may be finding the documents necessary...you need POLISH documents showing your grandfather as a POLISH citizen ("Obwy. Polski")

If you want citizenship, be patient and take it one at a time. It's a long process, so don't rush anything. At least you live near a consulate. Most of us don't - my nearest one is almost 1000 miles away...

Hope that helps.

 

alyehound, thanks for your response -- very helpful.

Part of the reason I'm attacking the documents on my grandparents from the US side first is so that I can get as much information as possible so that my hunt for any polish records will be better than shooting in the dark. I may not necessarily *need* these documents with respect to proving my own citizenship but maybe they can help me fill in the blanks that my aunts & uncles seem to missing.

A few more questions:
(1) Suppose my grandparents were married in Germany -- will that negatively adverse my attempt at proving citizenship?
(2) If I'm really only concerned with proving my citizenship (and later applying for a polish passport), do I need to do anything for my father's proof first? Or just show proof of my lineage?
(3) I do not know, as of yet, the actual year(s) that each of my grandparents left Poland. The sequence of events suggests that they were each born & raised in Poland, forced to leave to Germany during the war, had two children (not my father) post-war in Germany, left Germany in Jan. 1951 and arrived in the US and subsequently had my father in 1958. Will I have to research any documentation on them in Germany as well? Or is it likely there isn't any assuming they maintained their polish citizenship?
(4) Since my grandparents didn't arrive until 1951, isn't it assumed that they couldn't have possibly naturalized prior to 1951? Or do I still need documentation proving this? Likewise, would I have to do the same with German documents for their time in Germany?


OK! I know this is a lot but again, thank you thank you thank you! I started pressing my family for any documents they had a few years ago but that was pretty much a dead end so now I'm focusing my attention a bit more and taking advantage of living close to a consulate while I can.

 

Upon inspection, I have actually submitted a request for copies of my grandparents A-Files, if they exist. I didn't think to request documentation on naturalization because I was under the impression they never filed for this. Thanks for the tip, I'll definitely submit requests for this as well.

 

(1) Suppose my grandparents were married in Germany -- will that negatively adverse my attempt at proving citizenship?

No, but then you'll just have to deal with another foreign government trying to obtain documents (and have someone that likely speaks German do it for you, or through the German consulate). You can always call the consulate, tell them you believe they were married there, give them as much information as you possibly can on the details of the marriage (approx date, location, religion, etc) and ask them to see if they can get it for you or point you in the right direction. I don't know how helpful the German consulate is...some consulates are better than others.

(2) If I'm really only concerned with proving my citizenship (and later applying for a polish passport), do I need to do anything for my father's proof first? Or just show proof of my lineage?

No, you're doing it for yourself. If your dad's dad was a Polish citizen and didn't do anything to lose that citizenship, then you're dad is automatically a citizen, and same with you. Note that serving (voluntarily) in the armed forces of another countries (i.e. the US) is something that will nullify your citizenship. If you dad or grandfather was in the military of any country besides Poland, don't mention it.

(3) I do not know, as of yet, the actual year(s) that each of my grandparents left Poland. The sequence of events suggests that they were each born & raised in Poland, forced to leave to Germany during the war, had two children (not my father) post-war in Germany, left Germany in Jan. 1951 and arrived in the US and subsequently had my father in 1958. Will I have to research any documentation on them in Germany as well? Or is it likely there isn't any assuming they maintained their polish citizenship?

It seems pretty likely they were married in Germany, see question 1. You MAY want to even see if they happened to become German citizens...never know.

(4) Since my grandparents didn't arrive until 1951, isn't it assumed that they couldn't have possibly naturalized prior to 1951? Or do I still need documentation proving this? Likewise, would I have to do the same with German documents for their time in Germany?

I'd side on the safe side with documentation. But, if you plan on doing it through the consulate, you can always GO THERE and ask. I say go there because as far as I know, getting someone on the phone there is one of the hardest things a person can do, lol. I have called 20+ times and no one answers. At least you're in NYC and can get there easily. They have limtied hours, so make sure you're there early on the correct days/times.

 

Received copies of both grandparents death certificates and my grandfather's actually provided some good information: it explicitly stated his citizenship as Polish and I finally have both of his parents names. I was hoping to find out where he was born but that information only listed Poland. My grandmother's didn't state her citizenship at all but I did find out her father's name (mother's info was missing).

I was also able to get my hands on my grandfather's green card which gave me his Alien Registration Number -- should be helpful when it comes to requesting copies from USCIS. (On another note, USCIS is launching a Genealogy Program effective August: http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/ ... cd190aRCRD . This will be a fee-for-service. Not sure how this effects the current procedure for requesting the same information -- mind you, for free.)

I found out my grandparents were married very shortly after meeting (they actually met IN germany -- apparently the story goes that my grandfather had to protect my grandmother's honor). My grandmother was underage(not sure what age you are qualified to marry) so my grandfather paid a man off to marry them. Who knows if their marriage legally took place. I suspect, at this point, that may not even be worth venturing down that road.

The military aspect is questionable for my grandfather. My father never enlisted, so that is not an issue, however my grandfather, supposedly, was in the equivalent of the national guard -- for what country, I don't know. The details surrounding this are very vague. Again, this may not be worth even mentioning.

What I do know for sure: the US recognized my grandfather as a Displaced Person immigrant and that, upon death, a Polish citizen. Here's to hoping I can back that up somehow!

 

Sounds like you're on a good track. I'm not saying it will, because it probably won't, but you may want to call the consulate see if that is proof he didn't become a citizen before Jan. of 1951 (assuming that the card wasn't issued until after that date, which I believe it would fit properly based on your timelines). Check into that - it may save you a lot of time.

If that works it will be proof he never lost any citizenship he may have had. Now the onus is on you to prove he actually was a citizen a one point. Remember - in general, Polish officials won't accept any US documents saying he was Polish (i.e. death certificate saying Polish, ship manifests). Your main goal is to find something like an old Polish passport. From what I recall, if I remember correctly, even a Polish birth certificate doesn't prove citizenship in all cases...

 

I think I'm going to take my lunch break next week sometime and walk over to the Consulate and see what kind of information I can get from them.

Seems I've also sparked an interest with some of my aunts & uncles as well -- looks like they are going to try to venture down the same path as well!

 

Let us know how your experience goes. I don't know if we've had someone talk about the NY consulate yet in here.

 

Wow, there's so much info on this thread, it's overwhelming.

I first posted on this thread 3 years ago. Since that time, my grandmother who was born in Poland has passed away. My uncle is currently going through all of her things and sorting stuff out. This has re-sparked my interested in finding out more about Polish citizenship.

So in the last 3 years since I researched this, is there a clearer answer on my eligibility? Both of my paternal grandparents, now deceased, were born in Poland. They were both holocaust survivors, and met in a DP camp after the war. They moved to the US in very late 40's/very early 50's. My father and myself were both born in New York. Is Polish citizenship (or more importantly, passport) worth pursuing in my situation, or is it probably a long shot?

Thank you for any and all help!

 

What are your specifics - dates of arrival in the US, became citizens? When? Military service outside Poland? Have old Polish documents from Republic of Poland (est. in 1918)? Etc...

 

I think most, if not all documentation was lost in the war. I'm assuming both death certificates will state they were born in Poland. They came to the US in 1950 I believe, but I'm not sure when they became legal citizens. Neither of them served in the military.

My uncle is currently going through all of my grandmother's paperwork and belongings since she just passed away a few weeks ok. Is there one "key" item that will make everything much easier? A birth certificate for example? Because I can call him up today and see exactly what he has, as long as I know what I'm looking for.

Thanks!!!

 

A Polish birth certificate of your paternal grandFATHER and/or ideally HIS Polish passport. As far as finding out whether or not he became a US citizen and when, look back at my past few posts mentioning a USCIS form. It took my 13 months to get an answer back, FYI. It's a long process. Read the Q&A's in my last few posts replying to susano.

 

Just got off the phone with my uncle and we have... nothing! Absolutely no paperwork from Poland for either grandparent. The only thing he said he MIGHT have, but hasn't found yet, is immigration papers from the US from 1950. Is this the end of the road for me?

 

That's a hard question for me to answer because I don't know. From what I understand, you have to prove somehow that the person whom made you a citizen (i.e. grandpa) was actually a citizen himself. Another thing you can TRY which I had no luck, but that may be for other reasons, is to find out where your grandparent(s) we born and mail (post) the regional office that holds birth certificates. You can only claim citizenship through your grandfather or father by the way (not mom or her side).

Here's a good start:

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~polwgw/Research.html

The place is called the USC, or Urzad Stanu Cywilnego.

 

Thanks! Also, is there a site or agency like this one: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~losthis ... ssport.htm
but located within the US?

 

No idea. See if she'll do it for you. She may not care you're in the US as long as she's paid.

 

Another question...

So far from what I've read, I basically need all of this info for my grandfather only. What if all I can find is info/paperwork on my grandmother? Is it useless?

 

You could try it, but technically it's not worth much. Technically, citizenship is passed from the father, up until the revision in the law in 1951, which won't help you. The people who process your confirmation for citizenship are just that - people. Some may be more lenient than others, but like I said, technically it's the law, don't expect anything more. I tend to expect the worst and hope for the best with my situation.