Also, I received responses from two of the lawyers listed by Curiousgeroge.

Roman Wisnieski sent a generic response requesting the following:

Piotr Stączek sent a bit more personalized response, but requested 1220 PLN for a citizenship check (about $533 USD, or 365 Euros):

Well, obviously I'm quite wary of paying over $500 just for an eligibility check, given that there's guarantee of success and I could just be throwing away money (i.e. it could easily be a scheme to get $500 just to say I"m not eligible). Granted, Stączek obviously needs to make money somewhere, and would get nothing for doing a check for free, but still $500 is quite a lot when I have no real way of knowing whether he actually will explore all legal options.

I'm also somewhat wary of Wisnieski's response, seeing as how I already emailed him all of my details and since his response is clearly a generic one. In any event I only have access to a cell phone at the moment, so at the moment I have nothing to send him.

Well, I guess I have the weekend to decide what I am doing. I'll probably contact Stączek and see if there is anyway to pay only on condition of success (or something like that), and will tell Wisnieski I only have access to a cell phone (and probably try to get him to send something other than a generic form letter).

 

I used Mr Stączek and found his office to be very effecient and well organised with good communication.

 

That is irrelevant in this case.

 

As far as Mr Stączek's fee, I couldn't fiund the email, but I believe he quoted me around $300 or $400 to check for eligibility, versus Charsky which was around $200.

 

Yup. Sounds just like my case. Maybe if its not coming from a consulate, they don't give 2 farts about it?

I think you will have a result next week.

 

Here's my official interpretation:

1. If you apply directly, you have priority, but they don't care about you.

2. If you apply via the consulate, you're behind last-in-line for confirmation, but at least they'll stay semi on top of it because there's someone that has "oversight", that is, someone to report to to an extent.

Apply directly, they only have to report to us, and since we're not even citizens (yet), who cares? So yes, them not giving two farts may even be a generous description!

Edit: Based on what you and polskiarg have said about calling and then 1 week later is done, leads me to believe I will likely have a similar result. I just hope mine is successful as were both your and his sister's.

 

I've spent hours perusing over 30 pages of this thread, but still have some questions and was hoping for some tips from the semi-pros.

I'm a citizen of the US with Polish ancestry. My grandmother on my mother's side was the only child of 4 siblings to have been born in the US. Her parents moved to the United States along with her siblings, through Ellis Island, in 1910. I do not yet know if or when my great-grandparents were naturalized as US citizens, but I am currently looking into this, and understand it is crucial to the process.

My great-great grandparents, great-grandparents, and all of my grandmothers siblings were born in Poland. At the time my great-grandparents moved to the United States, Poland was under Russian control; however, they were from Warsaw. I understand I would need to supply a document that proves all of this, etc. - but I'm not there yet.

Assuming they did become United States citizens, and it was before 1918/20, so the law wouldn't have applied to them (or if they never became US citizens at all even), AND I was able to acquire/supply all of the necessary documentation (Polish birth certificates, marriage certificate, proof of citizenship, etc.), would I be eligible to apply and pass the confirmation of Polish citizenship application?

There are so many hoops here, and I'm just trying to find out if I'm even barking up the right tree. Thanks for your time.

 

Based on your info, your family may be polish ethnically but not polish in terms of legality. By this I mean that since your family emigrated in 1910 theynever were in fact polish, because Poland as a modern republic wasn't founded until 1918. So when you talk about getting polish documents I don't see how even this could be possible since they weren't citizens. If omehow you can come up with a polish passport "paszport polski" that is from the republic of poland (something like "reczeszka polska") then that's another story, but I failmto see how. Good luck.

 

Thank you for your response. Yes, at the time it was a part of Russia; however, where they were from, Warsaw, lies within the boundaries of current Poland... not current Germany or Russia. I thought I had read in this thread that this was required.

So without a document from the 'Republic of Poland' - even a birth certificate proving they were born in Warsaw, or a document stating that they were citizens of Russian Warsaw - nothing can be done?

 

Alyehoud,

I just did more research on what you said, and I'm pretty sure you're right. Because my great-grandparents left for the United States in 1910, before Poland was considered the Republic of Poland, they were Polish, but not legally citizens of the Republic of Poland, as they couldn't possibly be citizens of a Republic that wouldn't exist for another 8 years.

I was thinking about other possibilities though, and came up with this. Please let me know what you think about it.

My great-great-grandparents, which must have been born in the 1850's or around there, were from Warsaw as well. They, unlike their children who emigrated to the United States, never left Poland. They were wealthy business owners of a cab company (literally a horse and carriage), and owned their own house in Warsaw. Because they never left Warsaw, they were living in Poland when it actually became the Republic of Poland in 1918. They were then murdered in the concentration camps sometime in the 1940's and no one ever heard from them again.

Could my mother do what I'm doing right now? Trace her great-grandparents, find a document proving that they were citizens of the Republic of Poland, as they lived in Warsaw from well before and after 1918 up until the 1940's? If she could establish this, and she went through her own confirmation of Polish citizenship process, could I then be eligible for citizenship because my mother was found to have confirmed legal Polish ancestry?

 

You are in the same situation as Zebulunite whose great-great-grandfather emigrated to the U.S. in 1905 and he is still trying to find a sensible opinion from a lawyer. As I outlined it in an earlier post: Art 2 of 1920 Act says:

"At the moment of declaration of the present act, the right to polish citizenship serves every person, without distinction of sex, age, religion and nationality, who:

1) is settled on the territory of The Polish State, as far as it is not entitled to another country’s citizenship. Regarded as a settled in The Polish State is the person who:
a) is enrolled or is entitled to be enrolled to books of permanent population of former Kingdom of Poland;
b) is entitled to homely surrounding in one of communes on the territory of The Polish State, which have made up a part of The Austrian State or The Hungarian State;
c) had, before 15th of January 1908 on grounds of german citizenship, a permanent residence on territory of The Polish State, which formerly has made up a part of The Prussian State;
d) was enrolled to urban or rural commune or to one of state organizations on lands of former Empire of Russia which are now parts of The Polish State;

2) was born on the territory of The Polish State, as far as it is not entitled to another country’s citizenship;

3) is entitled to polish citizenship based upon international treaties. "


What I understand from section 2) is that even a person who "was not present on the territory of The Polish State at the time of the declaration of the act" should still be considered to have acquired Polish citizenship from very moment of the declaration of the act, regardless of his place of residency, since there is NOTHING stating that a person who emigrated before the declaration of the act should be excluded from the possession of the Polish Citizenship.

The Polish government seems to systematically "ignore" section 2) and only applies section 1) in a very controversial way stating as a requirement to be resident on the Polish State in or after 1920.

 

Sounds like a very difficult situation if I was to approach this issue trying to prove my citizenship through my great-grandparents that moved to the U.S. prior to 1918.

What do you think about my mother's situation? 2 of my mother's great-grandparents lived in Poland their entire lives, and lived there well before 1918, and well after 1918, until their death in the 1940's. Because they never left Warsaw, they had to have been citizens of the Republic of Poland that was established in 1918. They never left the country, so they were never citizens of another country. If we were able to find proof of their citizenship to The Polish State, wouldn't my mother be eligible for Polish citizenship? Then if she was found to be a Polish citizen, couldn't I then apply as my parent is now being recognized as a Polish citizen?

 

Your great-great-grandparents were certainly Polish Citizens. The problem here is that you need to be able to prove that also your great-grandparents were Polish citizens and that's where the issue arises since they did not hold documents from "The Republic of Poland post 1920". and I presume they were over 18 years old in 1920. To establish your Polish citizenship the line of transmission must not be interrupted at any point. Your claim of Polish citizenship is based in line to the last ancestor who was born in the territory of Poland and later emigrated to the U.S. You cannot surmount your claim to a previous ancestor who never left Poland.

 

polskiarg beat me to it, and gave a very good summary of my argument of why I should be eligible for Polish citizenship, which sounds like the same rationale you would want to argue regarding your great-grandparents who came over in 1910. At the moment, I haven't heard anything conclusive from the lawyers I have contacted, but should probably be getting a reply from them soon. I'll let you know what they say.

 

This doesn't make sense to me. The law states that one must be able to prove relation to either 1 parent, 1 grandparent, or 2 great-grandparents that have Polish citizenship for one to be eligible. Both of my mother's great-grandparents had Polish citizenship and lived in Poland after 1918... but that's not enough for her citizenship process? One can't simply prove that 2 of my mother's great-grandparents were Polish citizens, and then prove through the necessary documents that she is related to those great-grandparents?

Yes, my great-grandparents were over 18 years old in 1920. I assume what you're getting at, is that this means my great-grandparents could not inherit Polish citizenship through their parents, my great-great-grandparents, whom received it in 1918?

 

I see you just added this information to your post. So my mother can only attempt to trace citizenship through her grandparents, the last of my direct family to have been born in Poland, because they were the last 'officially' Polish people? It doesn't matter that 2 of my mother's great-grandparents were from Poland as well?

Where in the law does it say you can only make connections of Polish citizenship to the most recent family member born in Poland? I've only seen the part where it says 1 parent, 1 grandparent, or 2 great-grandparents...

 

That's correct, the citizenship must be inherited from parents to children and the line of transmission must not be interrupted.

 

It doesn't matter how many grandparents or great-grandparents. Even ONE great--great-grandparent could be sufficient as long as you can prove that all subsequent generations in direct line have inherited the citizenship ( this is how the criterion of "jure sanguinis" works). BUT you cannot skip a generation in the line of transmission.

 

Polskiarg has done a great job explaining it.

Incurve, odds are definitely against you in multiple ways. That said, it's possible for mother to become a citizen, potentially. Here are some of the first hard spots I see:

1. Your mother's great-grandparents were living in Poland. Many many archives of Polish documents were destroyed, especially Jewish ones. Not to mention that record keeping back then wasn't as common place as it is today. My grandfather's own birth certificate wasn't locatable even though I know the small town he lived in, the date of his birth, etc. Still couldn't be found, whether it was destroyed, or he just wasn't given one, I don't know. In any event, if you're lucky enough to find their birth certificates, the 1st problem is that birth certificates mean little. You need something that PROVES citizenship, i.e. expired passport. Given that they were taken by the Nazis, I would also assume all their belongings were stolen, and stuff such as passports probably destroyed.

2. It's your mother's great-grandparents, but is it your mother's fathers fathers? If it's not, it LIKELY wouldn't work since it jus sanguinis goes down the paternal line, at least until 1951 citizenship law revision. There ARE exceptions to this, but most likely only a lawyer and/or a stroke of luck could get you past that.


I would say that honestly, the chances are ever so slim that the time/effort/fees that go into it is not worth it in a risk/return scenario. Sorry to disappoint you.

 

Before 1951 the citizenship was only inherited by paternal line for a legitimate child and by maternal line for an illegitimate child. If your mother was a legitimate child born before 1951 then she cannot inherited Polish citizenship from her mother, therefore neither your mother, nor you would have acquired Polish Citizenship at birth. Otherwise, if she was born after 1951 you might have a chance, but based on your information your situation looks quite difficult and you would definitely need a lawyer. Good luck.