Reply from the consulate:

Dear Sir,
if your grandfather was granted US citizenship before January 1951 it means that he lost Polish citizenship and he could not pass it to his children. In that case you are not entitled for a Polish citizenship.
Sincerely,
Consular Division
Embassy of Poland in Washington D.C.


Is this the so-called ambiguous law talked about?

 

As I mentioned before, if you tell Polish authorities that your grandfather took U.S. citizenship between 1920 & 1951, even if it was derivitive (i.e. thru his father), they're likely to disqualify you. That's why I recommended that you have a search made of your grandfather's application for naturalization, and if nothing is found, you could truthfully say that your grandfather never "applied" for U.S. citizenship and offer the leter from USCIS as evidence.

 

The other option, if you don't want to contact USCIS yourself, is not to mention the US citizenship thing in the application when you give it to the consulate, and let the folks in the Warsaw office do the investigating for you. Just play dumb, who's to say that you should know all your grandfather's details anyway? They will contact USCIS either way. If they find that he naturalized before 1951, they will deny the application, but if they don't find that, then it might get approved.

 

I guess I'll post back when I find our from USCIS

 

I actually doubt whether the Polish authorities would do the USCIS search themselves. In fact, I think the records are protected under privacy laws. A person who files a FOIA request must state that he/she is related to the person in question and that the person is deceased. More likely, Polish officials would ask the applicant for proof that his/her ancestor did/did not acquire U.S. citizenship. As I mentioned, I was specifically asked by the person I dealt with at the consulate. Although this doesn't pertain to Poland, I have read the Canadian Citizenship Manual (used by Canadian officials when deciding whether a person has lost Canadian citizenship by a parent taking U.S. citizenship...common before 1977, not possible now) and it states that the applicant must produce the parent's citizenship certificate or have a search made of USCIS records to show that no U.S. citizenship was granted. It also says in the manual that if an applicant says that he he/she knows for sure that the parent never took U.S. citizenship, the Canadian government will normally just take the applicant's word for it, because the USCIS search can take several months to complete. I don't know whether the Polish authorities would be as trusting, but, as Curiousgeorge suggests, you could apply without mentioning the U.S. citizenship issue at all and see what happens. If you're going thru a lawyer (and assuming you haven't mentioned the U.S. citizenship issue already), wait and see whether he asks you about it.

 

The Polish authorities sent a request to the USCIS to search my USCIS records during my application. I don't see why they wouldn't search alyehoud's grandfather's records if they needed to.

 

From the official correspondance I had with the consulate, they stated I needed to have documentation of naturalization. Thus, if the name does not show up on official US records, as far as Poland is concerned he was never a citizen.

With that said, I'm sure they COULD request the documents from USCIS, but whether or not they would be sent is speculative at my POV, because as alphazip said - they are protected by privacy laws. I'm actually sending out my request tomorrow morning, after having it signed by my grandfather and having a notorized copy of his death cert. attached (which is required if the person is deceased). So it would be hard for Poland to acquire these documents themselves - to my luck, I hope

 

Curious, I don't want to disagree with you, because you've been so helpful to me personally (thanks!) and we're on the same side here.

But...and correct me if I'm wrong...didn't you just speculate that Polish authorities had contacted the U.S. government about your case because you got a letter from the National Visa Center asking if you were still a resident? It's possible that Polish inquiries prompted that, of course, but it's also possible that it was unrelated.

Because it's currently not possible to lose Polish citizenship without getting permission from the president, why would Polish authorities bother to investigate your status in the United States? Whether you have a valid visa or not or whether you did or did not became a U.S. citizen after 1951 (and I don't think you were even born then) is immaterial to your Polish citizenship status.

In my case, when I didn't include sufficient evidence to suit Polish authorities, they sent me a letter asking ME to send more information if I had any. They gave no indication that THEY were going to investigate my case for me.

 

I stand corrected...It was speculationon on my part that the 2 were related.

 

Does anyone know for fact whether or not Polish authorities require documentation of a change of name?

I.e. my grandfather's name at immigration was different than when he passed away - most likely it was an assumed name, rather than an officially recorded change....

 

Dzien dobry !

I only discovered this forum a few days ago, and I would like to share my story and my advice.

Today I am so happy, after 3 years of anguish and stress, I finally have been granted confirmation of my Polish citizenship. Woo hoo !
My father came to Australia as a refugee in 1951, married my Australian mother, I was born in 1953, and he was naturalised in 1954.
Surely, this should have meant my citizenship was not in doubt !

Early in 2004, I submitted all my documents to the Consulate in Sydney, and was told to simply wait !
I waited for 1 year, then got very shitty after no response, and proceeded to contact the consulate on a monthly basis, with no encouraging replies, except for the requests for yet more documents, which they well already had.

Last October 2006, I finally received a letter to say that my application had been refused ! I was devestated !
The reason given was that my paperwork was incomplete and incorrect !
Bollocks !

So, after researching on the Internet, I came across the site of Ilan Charsky, and contacted them.
The reply was encouraging, and they offered to launch an appeal.
As I don't speak good professional Polish, and couldn't fathom my way through the documents, using Charsky seemed the best way to go, as a last ditch do or die effort.

The cost was $2000 AUD / €1200 and I think it was worth every centime ! First payment was $1000, and the remainder would be payable only if the appeal was successful.
I recall that the translations of my documents and other costs when I did it myself, was almost $1000, so Charsky's costs are not so expensive after all.
The appeal took 6 months to be decided, but at last I have confirmation of citizenship, and soon I will have a shiny new registered Polish birth certificate in my hot little hand, to be used as proof of identity in applying for my long-coveted Polish EU Passport.

So, my one piece of wordly advice !
USE THE SERVICES OF A REPUTABLE CITIZENSHIP LAWYER !
It may be a tad expensive at first glance, but in the end, it will be worth it.

Good luck to all who are still waiting...
Pozdrowienia !
Krystyna

 

Hi alyehoud

Concerning the site
http://www.polishcitizenship.pl/

I would be very wary of a "professional" web site with a gmail.com email address, and a spelling mistake (aplication) on their welcome page !

 

That's what I assumed. I found a decent lawyer in Warsaw who has good credentials and a couple recommendations.

 

alyehoud,
Could you post thier contact info and / or website? (if they have one)

 

I think it was posted before that's why I haven't - but I will post anyway:

http://staczek.com/en/

His name is Piotr Staczek (Adwokat). His email is staczek@staczek.com. He is pretty good at replying to emails in a fashionable timeframe, as opposed to I. Charsky's firm. After several emails in correspondence about my case, he has been helpful thus far and knows what he is talking about.

But keep in mind he hasn't officially began working on my case (yet). I will use him though when I am prepared to send all my documents.

I will keep you all posted about him.

 

That is great news! Glad to see another person who has navigated this process successfully. It is NOT straightforward to say the least, and therefor when you reach the end, it is a great cause for celebration.

Yet another example for not filing at the consulate and instead either using a lawyer, or asking somebody in Poland to do the footwork for you directly


My Polish friends are planning a party to celebrate. They will quiz me on Polish history/geography and politics (I learned the basics in Polish Saturday school through grade 10, but I am sure I know very little) For every wrong answer, I'll have to take a drink. I guarantee I'll be drunk in the end. I don't typically drink, but this process is so crazy, it could drive anyone to drink.

 

Amen

 

Hi curiousgeorge

Thank you !
I am just over the moon this evening, and can hardly believe it !

I am in complete admiration of the Charsky firm, they answered my first email within a few hours, and my lawyer Mandy has been very professional and helpful throughout the time I have been dealing with her.

For those who don't know how it works with Charsky...
The firm in Tel Aviv takes the initial enquiry and makes the decision as to whether or not your case seems feasible, then the foot work is done by a team of lawyers in Warsaw, after you sign a type of "power-of-attorney" form to let them negotiate with the vovoid on your behalf.

I really do advise to bypass using the Consulate to file your documents, as they don't have your best interests at heart ... after all you are not paying them and they don't give a flying fig whether you get the citizenship or not !

Krystyna

 

I have had a relative of mine who still lives in poland go to the office in Warsaw. Was a complete waste of time. He was told the person he should speak to was away on holidays and should come back in a couple of weeks when they were back at work! The other thing which is really starting to annoy me is the fact that i've had about 3 case workers on my case in the last 4 months!!! each time we call to find out what's happening , they say they don't know anything about the case as they have just taken over the file from somebody else.

I've been asked for so many papers its not funny. They even wanted me to go and pay to have my mother's australian birth certificate translated into polish even though they knew my mother is australian and has no relevance to the case.

Looks like i'll be waiting another year for anything to happen!!

 

continuing the mission

Hi all again,

I have been doing some more research on my claim for polish citizenship and i could do you a few more answers if any of you would be as so kind to help.

Firstly i have spoken to my grandfather and confirmed that although he arrived in Australia in 1948 he did not become and Australian citizen until he married my grandmother in 1953 meaning that he to the day is still a polish citizen, therefore so is my dad (born in Oz 1954) and myself born in Australia in 1983.

My first question is:

Im going to register my birth certificate in Poland but first i must register my fathers. I have his birth certificate with an apostille stamp on it and i have a power of attorney letter from my father giving my friend the power which has been signed by a polish notary then i got the apostille stamp put on it. so...

Are there any forms that my friend needs to lodge it at the Urząd Stanu Cywilnego?

The second question is:

After he has registered my fathers birth certificate he is going to register mine or can he do them both at the same time? Do i also need to give my friend power of attorney as well?

Okay on to the next step. Gaining Citizenship!

After i receive the birth certificates how do i apply for citizenship?
Does my father need to get citizenship before i can? or is registering his birth certificate enough to prove the linage? Do i need to prove my grandfathers citizenship or will they have the records?

Am i and/or my dad applying for possession/loss of citizenship or certification of citizenship? I think it is certification of citizenship but i cant find any info of the procedure that my friend would do on my behalf. i mean im sure he cant just turn up at the government office with mine or my dads polish birth certificate and power of attorney letter and get the citizenship or can he? surly there are forms that need to be filled in with supporting documentation but what?

As you can tell im VERY confused.....

Once i gain my citizenship ill apply for my passport from here in Australia at the consulate.

Thanks in Advance for any replies