Could anyone tell me about visa / residence card situation / application procedures for Non EU citizen (I hold Japanese passport), married to EU citizen (British passport) who are living in Spain (both hold residencia Communitario)?

Michael

 

thank you for the reply.

What I wanted to know was what I need to do and provide in order to get a visa from French Embassy in Madrid.

The page you mentioned previous doesn't answer my question clearly, and pretty much says I have to ask the Embassy.

For those who are married to non-EU citizen, and currently living in an EU country (i.e. Spain), trying to move to another EU country (France), I would appreciate a bit more information.

(1) what is the name of the visa called in French?
(2) what does the visa do? (the spanish dependent visa, Regroupa Familia, was needed to apply for the Spanish resident card)
(3) how long does the visa last?
(4) is it for single entry or multiple? (as my dependent visa to Spain was single entry, and valid for 3 months from arrival in a Shengen state, and void once I get out of Shengen states (i.e. Switzerland. I don't know about the UK, as I belive UK is not part of Shengen states) until I have received my card or an official paper saying my application is under process.
(5) What documents do I need to provide?
I have a Spanish resident card called 'Regimen Communitario" which gives me the same right as EU citizens. Does it change what I need to provide? does it help at all for my move to France?
(6) Even though I live in Spain, do I have to apply from my 'home country' even though the easy expat webpage says so?

I'm sorry if 'Shengen' is spelled incorrectly.

Michael

 

Re: More questions on residence permits for Non Eu married t

Alice,
Let me remind you that I'm no expert of visas and residence cards.

I don't think you are able to exchange residence cards from one EU country to another. However it should facilitate the visa application process when moving from Austria to Spain.

I can tell you about my case coming from being a resident of a non-EU country (Singapore), having a non-EU passport (Japansese), married to an EU citizen (UK), moved to Spain (in Andalucia).

I do advise your husband NOT to move to Austria with a tourist visa.
As in Spain, you cannot apply for residence card/work permit with the tourist visa. My guess is that Austria is no exception.

Only a dependent visa (Familia regroupa) is valid to apply for residence/work permit. This visa is valid for three months, single entry (meaning once you leave Shengen states, void), and it is not a work permit. This visa is to be applied in the country of resident (i.e. Ecuador). Lots of prepartion and paperwork.

You don't have to be a resident of Spain if you stay less than 182 days a year or 6 months (thus not liable for tax in Spain). That means he still is a resident of Austria, thus liable for tax and social security only in Austria.

In order to live and work in Spain fulltime (eventhough married to an EU citizen and already having a resident permit in Austria), he has to apply for the dependent visa from Spanish Embassy in Vienna, which is valid upon applying for residence/work permit.

Your husband will be eligible to apply for Regimen Communitario Residencia card, which gives him the same rights as an EU citizen. For my case (as probably as your husband), my wife had to obtain the residencia card first, then I was able to apply. It needs to be done very quickly as the dependent visa is only valid for three months and card application process takes one to two months, depends on how busy (or lazy...) the officials are.

Some EU passport holders disappear from the system (i.e. without resident card, not paying social security, not paying taxes). However, if you are going to actually live in Spain fulltime, it is wise to be a resident as everyday things become very difficult when dealing with red tapes.

Obviously, it's best to ask Embassies or Consulates.

May I add a question that is related to this?
I am an Austrian citizen, my husband is non-EU (Ecuadorean), still in Ecuador but planning to join us in several weeks. He needs to enter on a tourist visa. So, in short, my husband is not a resident of the EU yet. We are also planning to move to Spain, and are not sure what to do next.

Should my husband obtain the AUSTRIAN residence permit BEFORE we move to Spain or should he apply for the tarjeta communitaria in Spain right away? I suppose what I am asking here is whether the residence permit of one country in the EU is valid in another country. Also, it would be good to know whether he needs to be a resident first in either Austria or Spain before he is eligible for job-searching in Spain. Is a job a prerequisite for obtaining the tarjeta communitaria?

Since he will be here on a tourist visa we need to get his status legalized ASAP.

This is all kind of confusing for us. I hope someone knows the answers!
Thank you so much!!!!
Alice

 

Jordan,
You should apply for a visa for Germany in Madrid.
For any non-EU citizen, we all need visas before applying for residency in any EU country (i.e. dependent visas).

Resident cards are not exchangeable (i.e. from Spanish residencia to a German version). It only facilitates the process (i.e. apply in Spain, instead of your home country). Shengen doesn't have much to do with it.

You can still go in and out of Germany as a Spanish resident, but makes your living and working in Germany difficult, because you are not officially in Germany as a resident.

cheers, michael

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Alice,
It's good to hear that he is likely to be able to apply for Spanish dependent visa with the Shengen visa in Vienna. However, I don't know what Shengen visa is.

Could you let me know what exactly Shengen visa is?

I totally understand how much of a hassle it is when there is no Spanish Embassy in the country of his residence. I was a resident of Singapore (I'm a Japanese) but there was no Spanish Embassy or Consulate there. I had to fly to the Spanish Embassy in Jakarta, Indonesia to deal with all the paperwork and stamps for a few times (and months of paperwork preparations).

It was especially tough, as the Embassy in Jakarta, Indonesia says one thing, the Embassy in Malaysia says another, and the one in Japan says another. In the end, by actually flying to Jakarta and talking to the Spanish Ambassador directly (by chance) made the whole thing clear. Even, officers in the same Embassy said different things over the phone!

The requirements are quite clear for EU citizens, and Non-EU citizens. However, the case for Non-EU citizens married to EU citizens (but not Spanish) moving to Spain, was not totally understood by Spanish Embassy officials across the board.

Do not, I repeat, DO NOT rely on Spanish Embassies about residencia. The embassies belong to the Foreign Ministry which deals with visas, and the residencia belongs to Interior Ministry. THE MINISTRIES DON'T TALK TO EACH OTHER! (quoted from various Spanish Embassy officials)

Cyril is probably right about applying for residencia at the same time.
Non-EU citizens (with dependent visa) can only apply for Residencia Communitario with a copy of the EU spouses' stamped application forms or the actual residencia cards.

Meaning Alice still has to apply first, but immediately after her application at a local police station, she could run to a shop to make a copy of her stamped application form, and submit her husband's on the same day. (And make sure he queues for Communitario, not for Residencia General where all the non-EUs apply, as he will eventually be told to requeue for Communitario)

Alice is pretty much guaranteed to get the card (as an EU citizen), and her husband is pretty much the same.....as long as he has all the right documents... every single one of them (and they'll still want more!).

As I said, he has to do the same application twice (once for the dependent visa at the Spanish Embassy in Vienna, and second for the residencia at a local police station). So much hassle, and so many red tapes (and documents). But believe me, it was worth the hassle, as I love it here, especially the sunny Andalucia, Spain.

Good luck ;-)

 

Jordan,
One thing I found out about dealing with visas and residencias is that many things don't make common sense, or it makes sense in their own countries (or within their offices for that matter) but not to rest of the world.

Let me remind you that I'm only commenting through my experience, and I have tried to make sense from all the troubles I went through for months.

>You said:> I live with my wife officially now and i was giving a temporary visa for two month to wait till i get the reisent and they come up with the idea of apllying for a dependent visa first.

My question is: what is the type of your visa in Germany?
Let me remind you that I don't know anything about immigration laws of Germany, but trying to understand from my experience and 'common sense.'

First of all, assuming that immigration / residency laws in Germany and Spain are relatively similar, as far as I know, residency cards are not exchangeable, this is because the residency is dealt at local level (i.e. local police station like Spain and France) . Local offices grant residencies to our cases with understanding that legality of entering and staying in the country (visas) has been granted by the Foreign Ministry (i.e. Embassies of the country of residence).

If your local residency office in Germany says you need a certain visa, you DO have to provide that certain visa, as EU immigration polices are often being interpreted differently in different places. It's not fair, but that's the reality.

>You said:>If others with thesame resident of shengen zone can apply for a resident living with the wife.So what is it about dependent visa?The official wants to send me back to my country nigeria which i think is illegal.If they have to do that it has to be spain not Nigeria?This is absolute discrimantion.

I agree that it could be discrimination....IF you are not allowed to apply for the dependent visa from Spain, where I assume you still have the residency. My experience tells me that you apply for these visas from the COUNTRY OF YOUR RESIDENCE. This is because you need to prove that you have no criminal record in the country of residence if you have left your home country long ago.

>You said:> They wrote to us that i can not get a their resident because i came with the idea to marry and stay in germany.And why did i marry in spain or germany instead of denmark.

Bureaucracy officials are individuals.... meaning each officer might interpret visa / residency applications differently. I have one official said no, and another said yes from the same office when granting visas. I don't know what exactly you should do, but somehow you have to convince officials that you 'came with the idea to marry and stay in germany.'

>You said:> I think we are living in a civilzied world because people can make their own choice not question my choice as a criteria to reject and seperate me from my wife.

Many of us fall in love, and eager to be with our partners for a long term, or some cases forever (if the marriage lasts). But many immigration officials are quite suspicious, particularly if the applicant is from a developing country. Many of them are under assumption that us non-EU citizens want to live in the EU for better life, not necessarily because we want to be with our partner wherever it is in the world.

Thus, we are required to produce some many documents to make sure, and prove that those of us are pretty honest about regrouping with our love ones.

As I said, it is not fair, but it's the reality.

Good luck

 

Jordan,

You are not alone. We all support you, and as others said, keep loving your wife!

As I found out, even though you are married to an EU citizen, and already a resident of an EU country, doesn't mean you can just move to another Shengen state like EU citizens do. We still need visas to apply for residency in the Shengen states.

And if you don't have a job already set up (meaning a company sponsors you into a Shengen state, for an example), we all have many things to prove that we have means to support ourselves, and we want to be there to be with our love ones.



CORRECTION!:
I previously said:
I don't know what exactly you should do, but somehow you have to convince officials that you 'came with the idea to marry and stay in germany.'

What I meant was: "somehow you have to convince officials that you DID NOT 'come with the idea to marry and stay in germany.'

I'm sorry about the wrong comment! Indeed, I should proof read before I send messages. It could ruin someone's life!

Michael

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