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✎ EN Polish Citizenship Confirmation [Part3]

Discussion in 'Immigration Poland - Polska' started by EasyExpat, Feb 8, 2009.

  1. rivenroyce

    rivenroyce New Member

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    I think everyone has gone and gotten their passports already haven't they - seems like this thread was active some years ago. But I thought I'd try.
    Some lawyers are telling me yes some are telling me no so I'll ask here before waisting money

    Polish great grandfather born 1897 left Poland 1927 naturalised as Canadian in 1933 (before my grandma was born)

    You would think - that cause he was conscription age when he naturalised (35-36) that it wouldn't count to Poland

    But some lawyers tell me that since he turned older than the conscription age in 1947- before the 1951 law. That he did lose citizenship


    I think people here have had cases like this

    Anyone have similar dates and still manage confirmation?

    Thanks!
     
  2. markmarkkram

    markmarkkram Member

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    Hey Riven. As far as i am aware willingly taking on a citizenship before the 1951 law removed Polish citizenship. At time of birth, your grandmother was no longer born to a Polish citizen. I am unsure how the military service situation fits into that but sounds like it gets complicated and not quite clear. Something you will have to argue if you disagree.

    I suspect you will need the help of lawyers and courts to argue it with the facts. If it was me interpreting the law I would argue that because he was of conscription age at the time of your grandmothers birth then she was STILL born to a Polish citizen at her birth. That is the time the bloodline would be passed onto her... and not in 1951 when the law was changed. This is likely they key arguement you will need to bring forward in my opinion. If you have all of the documents to support this timeline - including canadian nationalization certificate and your grandmothers birth certificate etc then all you need to do is fight and prove the conscription arguement. I am unsure of the precedent in that conscriptino arguement. Do you have any other success Examples?

    If a lawyer does not want to do it then you will have to keep looking for someone who will take your money and try. Have you talked to Krzysztof Banek? His firm was the one i used... and he was legit. But i had an easy no nonsense case. One thing that is great is that you have the old Polish passports. That is a huge plus for you as Polish documents are looked upon as much stronger.

    Let me know what happens. Email the lawyers with a concise clear email with the facts about the possible argument above. Try to lead them on. Some of the immigration lawyers are not actually real lawyers (in my research) so maybe that is why some of them do not want to be burdened with a complicated case. Or they are nice and do not want to waste your money?
     
  3. Dorota

    Dorota New Member

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    Hi,

    It depends when your grandfather was born, when your father was born and when your fathere joined National Guard.

    Best regards
     
  4. epredota

    epredota New Member

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    Hi there

    I'm trying to convince my mum to have her Polish citizenship confirmed, so that I in turn can claim Polish citizenship, and therefore retain EU rights after Brexit. (Hopefully, it'll never happen, but I can only bury my head in the sand for so long.)

    Our problem is, that my mother's father, although definitely Polish (born after 1918 near Kielce), had neither a birth certificate, nor a passport. All we have to prove he was Polish is a sworn afidavit from his brother, and possibly UN documents from when he was a refugee following his release from a German work camp at the end of WW2. Even those may only be copies, as the originals were sent to the British government in 1964 when he was naturalised as a British citizen, and destroyed by civil servants at some point between then and now. We do have his marriage certificate (UK) and at least a copy of his naturalisation document.

    My mother was born in 1950, so my grandfather's naturalisation as a British subject, as I understand it, shouldn't form a barrier to her (and subsequently I and my siblings) having Polish citizenship confirmed. But will the documentation we have to show my grandfather's original Polish citizenship be sufficient?

    many thanks
    Elinor
     
  5. sweetgreene

    sweetgreene New Member

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    Hi All - Have read through this entire board but not sure if anyone has addressed the problem I'm going through right now and wondering if anyone can share if they have had a similar experience:

    My great-grandparents left Poland in 1920 for the U.S. We have my great-grandmother's original Polish passport, but no documents for my great-grandfather. They are from Wołyń Voivodeship, which was under Russian control prior to WWI, Poland after WWI, and is now a part of Northwestern Ukraine. Have done all the legwork on contacting U.S. military archives and obtained petitions for naturalization.

    I have also hired a lawyer in Poland who said I may qualify since she had a Polish passport she was most likely married to a Polish citizen, but that they may question his citizenship. He said a Polish birth certificate for my great-grandfather or a marriage certificate may be required, but I'm not confident that the lawyer or the Polish authorities will find anything in the archives as few documents from that region survived.

    Can anyone give me guidance on what happened when they had documents from their maternal bloodline and what they did (or didn't) need from the paternal bloodline in order to confirm Polish citizenship? Basically wondering whether the only way I can confirm is by finding an original 'source' document for him in Poland or whether it's enough to confirm his Polish citizenship through all these other documents.
     
  6. gjene

    gjene Well-Known Member

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    SweetGreene
    It has been quite some time since I seen a posting in here from a member by the name of CuriousGeorge. I know he was going through, like a lot of others, to obtain citizenship from Poland. I am having the same issues about obtaining documentation in regards to my grandfather. One document I have suggests he may have lost his citizenship or at least it was in doubt. Because of this, I was told I do not stand much of a chance.
    So far I have not been able to find supporting information to prove if this was true or not. Especially since whatever documents he used to gain entry into Canada a relative of mine has the documents and has refused to let me see the documents. But CuriosGeorge or more senior members in here should be able to clue you in to others with similar issues. Good luck.
     
  7. yasdnilelis

    yasdnilelis New Member

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    Hello all! I've read through these threads and while I've seen some with the same/similar situations as mine...I haven't seen the outcomes and some of the advice is conflicting...so I may be missing something/updates. I will post here in the hopes that I can also receive some advice -- thank you so much in advance!

    I've been searching for a little while and found records that show my great grandfather and great grandmother (at age 30, both) landing in Nova Scotia, Canada from Danzig in 1927 with 5 of their children. Their places of birth are both listed as being in Poland, their nationalities are listed as Polish.

    Now, my grandmother was born in Canada in 1929. In 1934, my great grandfather and the 5 children from Poland became naturalized citizens. My great grandmother became a naturalized citizen in 1935.

    I have read about the 1920 law of residence/settlement and such, as well as the most common way Polish citizens lost their citizenship which was to become citizens of a foreign country before 1950/1951.

    I think my question here would be whether the blood line of citizenship was passed to my grandmother at the time of her birth in 1929 when my great grandfather would have still been a citizen of Poland. And that his naturalization would perhaps have not caused her to lose her Polish citizenship, since she got her citizenship in Canada by birth?

    Thoughts or directions I should take this? Thanks so much again!
     
  8. milevski

    milevski New Member

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    Hi everyone!

    I've read many different and interesting accounts here, and they've been very informative, so I was wondering maybe someone had a situation like mine?

    My father is Polish, he has never changed his citizenship. My mother is Russian, they met each other, have married and lived ever since in USSR and then Russia, where I was born. At the time of my birth (mid-80s) there was still a convention of 1965 in power that would prevent dual citizenship between USSR and Poland, so I've got a Soviet and then Russian nationality. The paternal branch of the family lives in Poland, me an my sister are visiting them, we both speak Polish. I currently work and live in the EU, so it would be extremely useful for me to have a Polish passport, not to mention that I have family ties there.

    Apparently, in 2002 the convention was abolished, and now the dual citizenship is possible. On the basis of a very clear documentation (I have every piece of original documents to prove the history) I applied for confirmation of my Polish citizenship, and - surprise - got refused! The reason given is really ridiculous: my parents at the time of my birth could have chosen for me to have a Polish passport instead of USSR, imagine the pain of that, permanently living in the USSR? Actually, my parents didn't have to use their imagination, cause my father himself went through all that. So, since they didn't do that, I naturally got the USSR nationality and _do not possess_ the Polish one anymore. To me, this is hard to believe. Also my application was handled extremely unprofessionally by the law firm I hired, so I was thinking, maybe a real professional can help me to resolve this situation? Maybe someone had a situation like mine?

    Thanks for your attention and advice
     
  9. HannaB

    HannaB New Member

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    Hello Milevski,

    I agree that you got a very unprofessional reply from the wojewoda. Did they ask for some additional document, or did they just refuse straightaway? Just trying to imagine what could have happened, would it be possible that the firm you hired missed the deadline to provide this additional document?

    I hired a polish solicitor (not a lawyer) to handle my citizenship confirmation for me and my family. As for now, I am waiting for a reply, she told me to wait about four months to (hopefully) hear news from the wojewoda.

    She has been very professional, and has very good credentials here in Brazil. She she does not charge for eligibility test, and I have heard that she tells people straightforward when they don’t get a chance.

    About eligibility tests, I need to speak something about that, mainly because this is my first post in the forum. I discovered this forum today and as I read some older posts, I realised that people here think just because they want the law to be flexible, it will bend to them. It does not work this way, the law is what it is, and if a ancestor lost the right to inherit polish citizenship, that is a misfortune, but nothing can be done about that. I am astounded that people can’t get over this disappointment and are easy preys for some scams.

    Having said that (I needed to say that as it is my first post in this forum), I think your case is only difficult because it has been already refused, but, if you had posted here before the reply, I would be sure you would get your confirmation. So, if you decide to change firm even though you had already paid them (it’s not an easy decision), I recommend Anna Bartsch ( anna@cidadania.pl) if she cannot help you, or is not specialised on former soviet citizens I feel confident she will promptly tell you.

    I’m curious to hear how it goes with your appeal, don’t forget to tell us when you get good news!
     
  10. HannaB

    HannaB New Member

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    Replied to your question in the post above
     
  11. SyahSyrah

    SyahSyrah New Member

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    Hello, first time posting. Hopefully i can get some help as i am not sure where to start...
    My grandparents (maternal) and their parents were polish (all deceased) my mother was born in Canada and so was i. I filled out an evaluation through polaron, birth dates, places and death dates of my grandparents, copy of their marriage certificate (basically only document on them i have) .. And dates of my parents marriage and location etc. Polaron told me that i may gain citizenship through my grandfather. He was born in Krakow and left poland when the 2nd world war ended, and besides his marriage certificate my family has nothing more here. I am going to poland in a few weeks, visiting Krakow. I am not sure where to start looking for records, or which documents, or who to speak to who can help me. My mother is not even sure of her grandparents names, so i have little to go on. Any help on where to start, if i can contact anyone with access to records in town now rather than search in poland, basically anything to set me on a direction. I did not continue with polaron as i found them a little too expensive for me .

    Thank you again, let me know if i need to explain anything more.
    I also only speak english, regrettably.
     
  12. HannaB

    HannaB New Member

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    Hello SyahSyrah

    Do you have some basic information about your grandparents to begin the search for documents? Do you know their city, date of marriage or dates of birth? If you don’t know, the information may be found on their marriage certificate. But then, you would need to find someone to read it for you.

    I got a copy of my grandfather and greatgrandparents vital records with the help of a solicitor in Poland. I only managed to get the documents because I paid this person to contact the archives. At first, I doubted that I would find something, but then, after waiting a couple of months, the documents had been located.

    So, if you can spare the money (for reference, the complete search costed me €200, on 2015) my advice is for you to contact someone reliable that can do the searches for you. I would just enjoy my time in Warsaw.

    However, if you find the cost too expensive or really would prefer to do it on your own, I suggest you to browse the city archive’s website, to see if they have an english version. Then, you could try calling them, just to make sure there would be an English-speaker on your visit. Try to plan everything before getting there, so that this doesn’t take your whole time there.

    PS: I am not asking you about the dates because you said a firm already checked that for you, and that you could apply for polish citizenship.
     
  13. SyahSyrah

    SyahSyrah New Member

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    Hello,

    Yes as i said in my pist i have my grandparents birth dates and places of birth (my mom told me, i dont have documents) and their marriage certificates (i have a scanned copy of this) and the dates they died and where. I do not knpw anything about my great grandparents, other than they were polish.

    Where do you source this reliable solicitor to contact archives in poland? And i will be visiting Krakow, not Warsaw. Krakow was where my grandfather was born so i was not sure if it was worth doing any digging while i was there.

    200 doesnt seem unreasonable compared to the $4000+ i was quoted from polaron. So i am willing to pay up to a point if it is worth it for sure.
     
  14. HannaB

    HannaB New Member

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    Hi, I am not sure if my polish solicitor understands well English, we email each other in Portuguese, but you can email her and see what she answers. Her email is anna@cidadania.pl

    The cost I mentioned was in Euro, in 2015. And that was for the complete search for documents, not for the application for polish citizenship.

    Sorry, I mistook Krakow and Warsaw.

     
  15. SyahSyrah

    SyahSyrah New Member

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    No worries, i just wanted to be sure of locations in poland in case there was a place reccommend i visit when i am there in october. Don't want to look for a place in Krakow that is actually in Warsaw!

    Anyway, i will email her, google translate is supposed to be very good for this sort of thing.

    Yes, i understood 200 ₠ .. Like i said, i know getting people to do this work for me will cost me money, if i had what polaron was asking i would have just paid it abd that's it.

    Thank you for all your help, if any one else has any tips or info it is much appreciated!

     
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