THIS INFORMATION IS STRAIGHT FROM AN OFFICER OF THE IND WHICH I CALLED TODAY, 09 AUG 2005, CALL TIME 9:45AM.

If you are to call the IND Office (0870 606 7766), make sure to start calling in the morning when they open around 9AM, as your wait time will be lesser. I only waited for about 5 minutes and got the male voice right away. After a few minutes, an IND officer named Joseph picked up my call.

Based on my conversation with him, those of you who are non-EEA Nationals married to an EEA National (I'm assuming you are here in the UK on an EEA Family Permit), the question of employment has been unclear as to whether you can work or not. The IND Officer said that YES YOU CAN WORK IMMEDIATELY based on the EEA Family Permit stamp in your passport. It's true that your right to work is inherent from the marriage to the EEA National, but once you start looking for employment and they seek proof that you can work here, then the EEA Family Permit is the proof you show (considering that your EEA Family Permit is current and valid).

A few scenarios as examples:

Scenario A:
The non-EEA National finds employment first than the EEA National. The EEA National can file for EEC1 (residence permit filed by an EEA National) on the "self sufficient person" status based on the fact that the non-EEA spouse is employed and the income is enough to support both persons. At this point you guys can decide if the EEA National is to work or not anymore, as the EEC1, once approved, already gives you the right of freedom of movement in the UK. For the EEA National (specially the New Accession States), this in essence bypasses the 12 month wait while the EEA National is employed before filing for the EEC1. Let's say that the EEC1 was filed already based on the above situation, and later on while the EEC1 is being processed, the EEA National gets employed, the EEA National (only those from the New Accession States) STILL has to register with the Worker Registration Scheme (WRS), as this is a UK Government regulation, but you don't need to file another EEC1 after 12 months of continous employment, as it has already been filed. Bottomline here is that, the government knows that either or both persons are employed and if such is the case, then the EEC1 will be approved. Reasoning for this is that the government just wants to make sure that those who stay here are employed and will not be a publich charge to the government (individuals seeking government benefits).

Scenario B:
The EEA National finds work first. If he/she is from the A-8, then the person registers for the WRS and once the WRS card and other documents are received by the EEA National, then the non-EEA spouse can file for the EEC3 (residence permit filed by a non-EEA National). It is important that the non-EEA spouse waits for the WRS documents as you need to write the WRS Reference Number in the EEC3 form. This is important as the non-EEA spouse usually is given a 6 month validity on the EEA Family Permit on the passport and the way to extend that is either filing for an EEA Family Permit extension (if that exists at all as I'm not sure) or filing for the EEC form, whether EEC1 or EEC3, as any of these forms, once filed, is valid for the EEA National and the non-EEA spouse, irrespective of who files which form.

Now, given this reliable information, I hope this is of great assistance to those who still have questions regarding these matters (just like me!) My wife is Polish and I'm the non-EEA spouse, and we've been searching for information regarding empoyment for awhile now. At least with this phone call I made, it is now CRYSTAL CLEAR that non-EEA spouses can work immediately upon arriving here in the UK from wherever you're coming from.

Should you have questions, just post them here and I'll try to answer them. Or call the IND with the number I used above, and get the information staright from them, which is what I typed here anyway.

Now I'm off to look for work...

 

Thanks for making this a sticky, and I was indeed hoping it would be made into one, as the info is from a reliable and recent source, thus the info is as frsh as it can be.

That's what I thought as well, and all this time I was waiting for my EEA wife to start work so I can file for the EEC3, which at my understanding, was a residence permit AND my right to work, as she is already employed. But I read another post in one of the topics that prompted me to call IND to clear it once and for all, straight from the horse's mouth as they say. ;-)

This is applicable if my wife, the EEA National, got employed first and at the time of filing the WRS and receiving it, I don't have employment yet. But the IND Officer said that if I get work first, then she can file for EEC1 right away and technically bypassing the 12 month wait. I made this clear with the IND Officer as I asked him what if shortly after I find work and get employed and the EEC1 was filed already and is in process, my wife finds work, what then? He said that since she's a citizen of the New Accession States, she just has to register for WRS, as this is a government program intended for formality,so that the UK Government can keep track of the EEA Nationals from the New Accession States getting employed, I guess for statistical purposes, so that if they need to revise certain provisions in the New Accession States Agreement, then they have the figures to back it up or justify it. He also said that since the EEC1 was already filed, then we just wait for the results of that, even though she found work because the EEC1 was filed when the conditions for filing it were met.

No, the difference in forms is only meant for who is filing which form. The EEA National files the EEC1, if the non-EEA spouse is employed or the non-EEA spouse files for EEC3, if the EEA National is employed. If you notice here, one of the persons has to be employed prior to filing for residence permit that allows the right to freedom of movement (for both parties) and takes over the EEA Family Permit upon or before its expiration (for the non-EEA spouse). The UK government necessitates that one or both parties should be employed, so as not to dive into public funds, which can be alloted to other individuals who are in need of such benefits more, as compared to freeloaders who want to exploit governemnt programs.

Let me even make it clearer:
If the non-EEA spouse gets employed first, and the EEA National files for EEC1, then that residence permit is valid for both parties. The non-EEA spouse's EEA Family Permit's validity switches from what is given in the passport to what is stated in the EEC1 documents when they approve it. The EEA National bypasses the 12 month wait and gains the right to freedom of movement in the UK.

If the EEA National gets employed first, then the non-EEA spouse files for EEC3 which takes over the EEA Family Permit validity, once approved. So the non-EEA spouse will now have a longer period to stay in the UK, and not just the 6 months given for EEA Family Permits. Now, after 12 months, the EEA National has to file EEC1 so that both of them have the right to freedom of moevement in the UK, without needing to file anything anymore.

Hope this makes it a bit clearer! Thanks EasyExpat!

 

Re: I Agree with Polskasweetie

I defintely agree with EasyExpat. I've been following this since I was in the US and there has been very strong opposition against a National ID. Here's my take on that though.

In the US, we have what we call a State ID (as the country is divided into 50 states) and a Driver's License, both of which are issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) of respective states. The scenario is: once you check online for the documents you need to bring, once you go to DMV you take a number and wait in line and then when you're called, you rpesent the documents, they check for authenticity and validity, and then take your picture and digital signature, and they print out the ID right then and there, and you walk out with either your State ID or Driver's License. It is inexpensive to get, with a duration of 10 years, and there is virtually no red tape involved.

Now if they can employ a similar system here, I do not see why such a strong opposition exists. The information collected from the individual is kept conidential and encrypted, the fee involved is not costly, and you have the ID in your hands before you leave the office, then it should be fine. And believe me, the US has a far bigger problem regarding identity theft, but these are mainly due to people not doing their part in preventing it.

That's my two cents on it....

 

Exactly EasyExpat! Just start off with a simple ID, to simply identify people here in the UK, and see where that project goes. It does not involve millions of pounds to set it up. Based on what I saw in the US, they have an ID Printer that prints all the information they want to show on the ID,a nd it comes out laminated already. It's a credit card sized ID, and I'm sure materials for the ID printer and the ID itself will not be expensive, and they can recoup their investments in a matter of 2 years, maybe less.

Now if this goes well and they still want to push the biometric high-tech ID, then they can tell the people to "upgrade" their ID to the new ones. Of course, they have to pack in more features in that biometric ID like no more signatures when showing that ID to offices or agencies, possibly incorporate your medical records, dental records, allergy information, or whatever info they want in the ID (everything can be stored in a microchip anyway), so that they can justify whatever price they want the people to pay for the "better" ID.

I guess it's gonna be a wait and see game....

 

Hahaha! Just wanted to share with you guys this bit. In the US, there's an experiment currently ongoing as to "chipping" people as a means of ID. A family in Kansas or something volunteered for this. They were implanted with a small (rice grain sized) microchip that basically contains the individual's demographics, including medical allergies, social security number, credit card number, etc. One situation where the "chip" was used was when the daughter who is 22 went to a bar and just waved her arm (the chip was near the wrist) at the doorman who had a special sensor and gives a readout of what is programmed in his device, and she was let in. Then she ordered a drink at the bar, waved her arm again over a sensor, and the bartender gaver her a drink and kept an open tab for her so she can wave her arm again when she wants to pay and leave.

Let me remind you, this is NOT a story. It has been in the news in the US, and has been under public scrutiny for a while, until other issues came up requiring national attention.

Weird...but maybe one day, this is how we all will be! Argh!

 

Wow! It's already more widespread than I thought it was!

 

Re: Visa extension of non-EEA National (UK)

If you read past posts, you will see there that what I have mentioned is that, who files for the EEC form depends on who got the job first. And I was told in that phone call that in case the non-EEA found employment first, then the EEA spouse can file for EEC1 on the "self sufficient person" grounds, as the salary of the non-EEA spouse can support both. This EEC1 filing is essentially for both persons, and in essence, bypasses the 12 month wait for the residence permit for New Accession States citizens.

To summarize, the EEC form (in the situation above) gives the EEA spouse freedom of movement without the 12 month wait as the non-EEA spouse is employed (which is what the UK Government wants to know), and the non-EEA spouse's EEA Family Permit gets converted to a residence permit, the duration of which is the Home Office's discretion.

Should you still have concerns, do call the Home Office at the number I called in the first post in this thread.

 

Re: to polskasweetie

Ania,

When you say "register" I hope you mean that since you found work first, then your husband will file for the residence permit. Even if his EEA permit expires after 6 months, and based on your date, it should expire January 2006. As long as the EEC3 has been applied for and dated by the post office before the EEA permit in the passport expires, then you should be fine. Because at the time of filing, your husband's status here was current and legal, and it's not your fault that they don't process these applications faster than they should.

Remember, what the officer told me was, as long as the papers are filed BEFORE the date on the permit expires, then it is fine and that you should have nothing to worry about.