Forum Immigration UK

[alabama]

I am a French citizen, and have obtained my EEA1. My spouse is American, he entered the UK on an EEA Family Permit and subsequently was granted his EEA2 on 11th July 2006, valid for 5 years.

The problem is that his passport has been through the washing machine. Everything is intact, but his photo has dashes of ink from the cover on it. We are pretty sure that the US Consulate will tell him to get another one. We are in the UK, planning to visit my elderly grandmother in Paris on the 23rd November. I have a number of questions.

In order for him to travel, we will probably have to get a new passport for him. But I have read on the IND website that

Transfer of conditions is not a concept in European law. If you have obtained a new passport and wish to have confirmation of your status endorsed in your new passport you will have to make a fresh application submitting evidence confirming that you still qualify for the confirmation that you seek.

There is no way that a fresh EEA2 application can be granted before we travel. So he will have to enter the UK again on his new passport, without the EEA2 visa, and presumably get it stamped with the usual entry stamp for US citizens. Does this mean he will have to give up his work until the new EEA2 is granted? This seems highly unfair. In that case, we will have to forego our trip to Paris, and just apply for the EEA2 as soon as he reveives a new passport from the US Consulate.

And does he have to forego work whilst the IND considers his EEA2 application even without leaving and re-entering the country? I mean, as soon as he gets his new passport, without the EEA2 stamp? We would hire a lawyer but are extremely short of cash, and can't afford for him to stop working. I can't believe the IND won't just stamp the replacement passport, it's not as if his old one's expired. To have to go through all that again seems illogical, they're giving themselves extra work too. I did try calling, but the person was extremely unhelpful and said something along the lines of "If that's what's on the website, that's the way it is," which doesn't really address my questions about his ability to work and travel.

I know this is a long post, I just wanted to give as much background information as I could. This forum has been a great help to me in the past, and I thank you in advance for any advice you may have.

[sebhoff]

In order for him to travel, we will probably have to get a new passport for him. But I have read on the IND website that

Transfer of conditions is not a concept in European law. If you have obtained a new passport and wish to have confirmation of your status endorsed in your new passport you will have to make a fresh application submitting evidence confirming that you still qualify for the confirmation that you seek.

There is no way that a fresh EEA2 application can be granted before we travel. So he will have to enter the UK again on his new passport, without the EEA2 visa, and presumably get it stamped with the usual entry stamp for US citizens.

No - the registration card remains valid in his old passport - he'll just have to travel with both. This of course presumes that the registration card has survived the washing machine, but as you say, everything seems to be intact.

Does this mean he will have to give up his work until the new EEA2 is granted?

No - his rights do not depend on possession of a valid residence card - he's got them anyway. It's just easier to prove them when he has a residence card.

And does he have to forego work whilst the IND considers his EEA2 application even without leaving and re-entering the country?

Again: no. By virtue of being married to you (and you continuing to be a "qualified person") he has the right to work.

I did try calling, but the person was extremely unhelpful and said something along the lines of "If that's what's on the website, that's the way it is," which doesn't really address my questions about his ability to work and travel.

I would always note down what you have been told over the phone (including date and time of the day, plus as much of their name as they are willing to divulge) as it may at some stage be handy to support your claim/complaint that you have been given blatantly wrong information.

Good luck!
Sebastian

[alabama]

Thanks for your quick response! It's very reassuring. However...

No - the registration card remains valid in his old passport - he'll just have to travel with both. This of course presumes that the registration card has survived the washing machine, but as you say, everything seems to be intact.

The registration card is fine - but the problem is that in order to get a new US passport from the Consulate he will have to relinquish his existing one. So no proof will remain of his status when he re-enters the UK. That's where the main problem lies.

[sebhoff]

The registration card is fine - but the problem is that in order to get a new US passport from the Consulate he will have to relinquish his existing one. So no proof will remain of his status when he re-enters the UK. That's where the main problem lies.

Is that what Americans have to do? Mhm - yes, I see the problem... I have a whole pile of old German passports - they just have been clearly marked as no longer being valid.
I know nothing about this, but I would call the American embassy to find out whether there's a way around this. They must have had this kind of situation countless times, and maybe there is a solution.
Sebastian

[thsths]

The registration card is fine - but the problem is that in order to get a new US passport from the Consulate he will have to relinquish his existing one. So no proof will remain of his status when he re-enters the UK. That's where the main problem lies.

Usually you can get it back invalidated, e.g. with a corner of the picture cut off. You should try to clarify that before you hand over the old passport.

If you can't get it back, things are more difficult. You could cut out the page with the residence card, and keep it. Theoretically it is valid on its own, but it may take some convincing.

[alabama]

We will ask for the old one to be invalidated then.

I'm just worried that they'll be really unhelpful and just keep the old passport with the residence card. The US Consulate in Edinburgh is not known for its benevolent nature!

In that case I presume he just won't be able to travel until his new passport is returned with a brand new EEA2 stamp? If he enters the country and gets the "Six months without recourse to public funds and work" stamp can he not just carry on working at his current job on his basis of being married to me? Or will the IND be suspicious when we send his new passport over with the "Six months blah blah blah" stamp for the EEA2 application? Sorry, a whole bunch of questions but I'm desperate for a way round this situation created through a silly mistake! The IND must have records and can see he has a valid EEA2 until 2011. Sounds like bureaucracy for the sake of it, but I'm sure there's a reason. Just so stressful to have to go through the whole thing all over again and I really don't want to postpone the visit to my grandmother, she's not in the best of health

[sebhoff]

In that case I presume he just won't be able to travel until his new passport is returned with a brand new EEA2 stamp?

Your husband is allowed to travel while the application is in progress. Even the people at the HO phone lines have mostly realized this by now. You can ask for the passport to be returned once you submit the EEA2 application, and nobody is *supposed* to stop him as long as he can prove that he's married to you and that you are a qualified person in the UK. In practice, they usually insist that he gets a new Family Permit, and if that is an option, it might be easiest.

If he enters the country and gets the "Six months without recourse to public funds and work" stamp can he not just carry on working at his current job on his basis of being married to me?

I'm no legal expert and don't know whether such a stamp would have any kind of impact - but the fact that you are exercising treaty rights under EU Directive 2004/38 should give him the necessary right anyway. If it comes to this situation, the free signpost service should be able to advise.

The IND must have records and can see he has a valid EEA2 until 2011. Sounds like bureaucracy for the sake of it, but I'm sure there's a reason.

I'm not sure there is a (good) reason for many things the IND does (or does not do).

Just so stressful to have to go through the whole thing all over again and I really don't want to postpone the visit to my grandmother, she's not in the best of health

I know exactly how you feel. I had to postpone such a trip myself. If I had known back then what I know now, I would have travelled anyway. If you have enough support for the claim that you two are married and particularly if you travel together, you may get some delay at immigration, but they will have to let you through. It's the law, and even the most stubborn immigration officer should realize that at some stage...

Sebastian

[alabama]

In practice, they usually insist that he gets a new Family Permit, and if that is an option, it might be easiest.

I've thought of that, sadly it's not an option since we're only going to Paris and he's only managed to get two days holiday from his work. So it's a three day trip only.

[sebhoff]

I've thought of that, sadly it's not an option since we're only going to Paris and he's only managed to get two days holiday from his work. So it's a three day trip only.

Yep - thought so. Know that situation, too...
I was once advised by a UK-Visas employee to contact the immigration officer of the entry point through which I was going to come back with my wife *before* leaving the country. They would be able to tell me how they treat situations like this. I don't really know what to make of this - because *all* immigration officers should really do the same thing, i.e. follow the immigration law. But it might not hurt to try anyway...
I would still think that the US consulate will return his document...
Good luck!
Sebastian

[alabama]

I'm no legal expert and don't know whether such a stamp would have any kind of impact - but the fact that you are exercising treaty rights under EU Directive 2004/38 should give him the necessary right anyway.

I called the IND again to confirm this and the guy clearly stated that if his passport was stamped with the "Six month blah blah blah" tourist stamp, it wouldn't have any impact on his right to work. So I guess we'll risk it since I can't imagine that his employer will suddenly ask to see his EEA2 again, already having a copy of it.

[Prawo]

I would do the following:
- copy the whole old passport (all pages where is something written)
- apply for a new passport
- ask the old passport back, fully invalidated, except for the page with the still valid EEA2 (who knows they will cooperate), as this is a general practice for full or expired passports with a still valid visa
- apply for the EEA2, which should be easy to issue with the same validity as your partners EEA1
- ask your passport back while the EEA2 is in process
- US citizens have visa free travel, but take the old passport (is you got it back) or its copy and the marriage certificate, as well as your French partner with the EEA1.

I do not think you should have any problem traveling to France and back.