Hi,

I have some of the same documents you have... was your grandmother repatriated from the USSR?

I ask this because in the USSR they saw jews as a "nationality" and in Poland they did not. So this would provide reason for having such a document (other than preparation for alyah)

And the period of repatriation was between 1958-59 and they had to wait for some years to get a passport. (my grandmother also emigrated in 62)

So... were they in the USSR?

DWWD

 

Legnica... my father lived there too (from 58 to 62) !

Maybe they knew each other! 2 jewish kids about the same age, I just have no idea how big Legnica was/is....

 

Before I get carried away and spend a lot of time and money on getting a confirmation of Polish citizenship, I wonder if someone knowledgeable could give their opinion on whether I have analyzed my claim correctly.

My grandfather, now deceased, was born in 1894 in Galicia. He came to the USA in 1924 on a Polish passport which I have access to, and naturalized as an American (I'm not certain yet of the date of naturalization). He never served in the military. My father was born in the USA in 1928 and joined the US military in 1952. I was born later in the USA. My analysis is that my grandfather retained his Polish citizenship and transmitted it to my father, who transmitted it to me.

I am presuming that, based on the 1921 Act, my grandfather retained his Polish citizenship even upon U.S. naturalization, because he was of draft age at the time but never asked permission from the Polish government to be relieved of his military service obligation. The second point I am worried about is whether my father lost Polish citizenship when he joined the US military. But the 1951 Act does not seem to carry forward the provision of the 1921 Act for loss of citizenship on joining a foreign armed forces. Therefore, I hope, his joining in 1952 did not result in loss of his Polish citizenship. Can anyone confirm that I have dodged these two obstacles and might likely be Polish?

Finally, my relative who has my grandfather's fragile old passport would rather that I not take it to the consulate for legalization. Will the Polish government accept a local notary public's certification of a true copy, along with an Apostille?

Thanks for any advice. These threads, of course, are an amazing resource.

 

Welcome:
The fact that you have your grandfather's Polish passport in your possession is fantastic. Legalization at the consulate only requires photocopying a few pages and examination of the document by the consul. I don't understand your relative's reluctance.

I haven't done much reading on the foreign military clause relating to forfeiture of citizenship (I am claiming citizenship through female descendents). Have you read through all the posts (part 1, 2 and 3?). There is an enormous amount of info available there. I'm sure this issue has been raised somewhere along the way.

Alternatively, you may want to reach out to a few Polish lawyers and get their opinion on your chances (this is usually done at no cost).

Let us know if we can help further.

 

Thank you for your reply. I do hope that if necessary I could persuade my relative to let go, just for a day or two, of this precious, fragile memento. But if I knew for certain that a certification by a notary, combined with an Apostille, would be accepted, then I could avoid the issue. So, I'd appreciate knowing if anyone has had success with a copy certified that way.

Similarly, I have read here about the exception for men aged 18 - 50 from loss of citizenship upon naturalization, but I'm not sure that I have read of anyone actually succeeding with a claim that depended on that exception. It would be reassuring to know that it works in practice.

 

I dug this up, doesn't look promising...

2. A Polish citizen loses his/her Polish nationality, if he/she accepts public office or joins the army in a foreign country without prior approval of the Polish Government.
Example: Polish grandfather emigrated to Australia in 1930, joined the Australian military, got married and had a child. Polish grandfather willingly accepted a position in a foreign military and therefore lost his Polish citizenship. Since grandfather lost his citizenship his child will not inherit Polish citizenship.

 

Thank you, Siuniab. That provision comes from the 1920 Act. The 1951 Act did not include that provision. My father joined the US military in 1952. So, my hope is that joining a foreign military after 1951 does not result in loss of citizenship. Again, I wonder if anyone has succeeded with a similar claim.

 

It is my understanding that they want the certification done by the consular office, not a notary. I also had an old, fragile, irreplaceable document, but made an appointment with my local consulate, they just made a photocopy while I waited then stamped the back of the photocopy and handed back the original. (or maybe they stamped the photocopy that I took along, I'm not sure.)

I did not have to leave the original and come back for it.

Perhaps you and your relative could go together to the consulate? (not sure how far it is, how easy it is for your relative to travel.)

But you're right about holding on to the original. I had Charsky work on my citizenship, and wasn't about to send anything irreplaceable by mail. (it was a mail I didn't feel comfortable with.)

 

Fat Michael, besides proving your father was born Polish, you need to prove that he was still Polish at the time of your birth and that he did not lose his Polish citizenship prior to your birth (such as by becoming a naturalized Australian.) So you will have to get proof from the Aus govt that he either never became a citizen or, if he did, that it was after your birth.

 

Marron,

Its not as simple as that. If he naturalized australian after 15/feb/1962 he did not lose his polish citizenship automaticaly. (and his father went to Australia in 1962)

But, you never know... he still have to confirm his citizenship.

DWWD

 

JESTEM POLAK !!!!!!!
I had started the process with Charsky 2 years ago, and switched to Piotrowski after Charsky died and his law firm disappeared. Finally after 2 years my case has been decided and it's now been confirmed that I am Polish yay!!
Piotrowski charged me a reasonable price to finish the job.
Apparently it took Charsky 8 months just to get the translations done (incorrectly, it turns out) and BEGIN the process with the citizenship office.
Months passed with my case in limbo while I unsuccessfully tried to contact the Charsky firm.
Then I found Piotrowski, and he had some translations re-done correctly, and took over.
So it looks that of the 24 months, 8 were wasted before the initial documents were submitted, and a couple of months wasted because nobody was representing me, so I guess the process should take a little over a year under normal circumstances.
Thanks to all who provided the info in these forums. Before deciding to use a lawyer, I had read all the posts.
So how do I celebrate? Vodka? Nope, I don't drink. Kielbasa? Nope, I'm vegetarian. Maybe I should follow the polish custom of throwing buckets of water at people on Easter Monday? If I do that, I might need a lawyer ... an American one this time!!!

 

Congratulations!!
I, too, am a Piotrowski client. I'm still waiting (more on that later).
BTW, it should be "jestem polakiem" (instrumental case).
I guess next steps involve getting your PESEL number and birth registered in Poland, if you haven't done so already and applying for a passport. What a happy day it must be for you.

We renewed my son's Canadian passport today in Toronto. It took 30 minutes and will be mailed to our home. Hahahaha. Ridiculously simple. I guess one needs a lot of inner fortitude to be Polish.

Back to my case: Piotrowski writes me last week asking for original documentation relating to my father. WHAT??? We are proceeding with the confirmation through my mom!! My documentation is rock solid. Some #%$# urzedniczka has taken it upon herself to request totally irrelevant information, because she is "curious". Piotrowski agrees that this is a totally unneccessary step/request but she needs to be humoured. What a total waste of time and money. In terms of a timeline, April 1 will be exactly 1 year since I started this process.
Patience required.

 

Lawyers, lawyers, lawyers

Hello everyone,

First of all, I'm new here, though I've spent many hours reading these threads and have learned a great deal from them, so thank you all for that. I'm looking to get citizenship confirmation and I've had three or so positive assessments of my eligibility. So I'm fairly confident about my case. However, time is tight for me and I know this can take a long, long time.

The hardest thing for me in all of this is finding a lawyer in Poland. There are a lot of awful stories on these pages.

Can any of you repeat posters give feedback or advice on lawyers?
So far I've spoken to or looked at:

> CK & Partners
> Krzysztof Banek
> Roman Wisniewski
> Piotr Stączek
> Piotr Ciszewski

The closer I look at them, the harder they are to assess...
Particularly need to know about communicativeness, trustworthiness and speed.
I'm in a position to go to Poland if necessary. I don't want to get screwed though, and I can't afford to have anyone sitting on my case.

Anyone?

Thanks.

 

Of the lawyers on the list you provided, I only had preliminary dealings with Piotr Staczek. He was on my list for consideration. I sent him my documentation and exchanged e-mails a few times before I ultimately chose Piotrowski.

Staczek's command of English was very good and he seemed responsive and communicated well and promptly. Fees were similar to Piotrowski's.

Although I didn't select to have him represent me, he seemed competent and honest.

Can't comment on the others.

 

I got confirmed! It only took five years (check out my sign up date!)

 

Hey that's great Neuman. Congratulations!

As I recall, you filed your papers in the early fall? That was pretty quick.
My confirmation papers were filed around the same time and I'm still bogged down with "inquiries". Ugh

Good luck with the remaining steps in getting your passport.

 

I believe we submitted the paperwork on 9/17/09. The other 4 years were spent on digging up documents! I don't think I got any inquiries, but I think there was a little bit of a snag involving a specific person in the Warsaw civil offices who let the application sit on her desk untouched for a few months.

 

Thanks siuniab. Still searching around. And congratulations neuman, gives hope.

Something about this place reminds me of rick's joint in casablanca.

 

lol
we refugees must be careful because there are "vultures, vultrues" everywhere.

If only I could sleep with an "inspector Renault" type to speed this along.


hahahaha

 

After Charsky disappeared I contacted both Banek and Piotrowski. Both were responsive in answering questions and fees were about the same. I went with Piotrowski and was satisfied; just got citizenship, see previous post.
I checked to make sure both were lawyers before sending $ and documents.