What ever time frame they tell you - don't believe it

i applied for my ancestral passport through the consulate in australia in January 2006 - 15 months ago and still haven't been told how much longer it will take despite numerous calls.

both my grandparents and my father are all from poland yet it still takes longer than a month of sundays to process.

i would hate to see how long it takes for someone with only 1 relative from poland

 

The consulate here told me it would take _at least_ 18 months, possibly more, if I process the case through the consulate. One of the main problems with doing it through the consulate is that they have no way to find out the status of your application, since it gets processed in Warsaw, and its handled by an institution that they have no insight into. That's why they cannot give you a better idea of how much longer it will take. Worse, yet, if the decision is negative, in some cases, you have no recourse. The decision may be final, unless you reapply, and wait all over again.

The consulate recommended that if I know someone in Poland that can help me, that I try to process the case directly in Poland. I did, and it was MUCH faster and much simpler. No need to fill out a silly resume with my family history for example. I got my birth registered in a month, and I got my proof of Polish Citizenship in less than 8 months. Furthermore the issues I mentioned with regard to applying at the consulate don't exist when you apply directly. You can go see them to get status update, and if there is an issue, they will tell you and you can provide any information to correct it.

Now on to do the passport, which should take about 6 months or so, once I submit the application. Unfortuantely, they only accept passport applications every 6 months or so here at my local consulate.

 

Polish citizenship

Hi All,

I have finally made the decision to attempt to acquire my polish citizenship and recently have been doing a lot of research with this forum being of huge help, and i thank you all.

I have obtained all the relevant documentation but want to know the best way to go about it all.

I am born and bread in Australia and my grandfather is Polish born in Wilno in 1921. There is quite a story to how my grandfather ended up in Australia having his father killed by the Russian forces and buried in a mass grave in the Katyyn forest then being sent to work in Siberia surviving on half a slice of bread a day to enlisting in the polish forces in Germany after and agreement was made between the Polish Government in exile in Britain and the British to then fighting in the battle of Monte Casino in Italy. Needless to say i am quite lucky to even be here after every thing he endured.

So what is the best way to do this. Curiousgeorge maybe you could shed some light for me. Is it best to register my birth certificate with the polish government then apply for the citizenship, i have no problem doing this as i have friends in Poland but how do i do it all? Or shall i just apply to the the embassy here in Australia

Any help from anyone would be of the greatest help, id love to get my polish citizenship before he passes on as he is my reason for doing all this


Schmoofdie

 

Re: Polish citizenship

If time is of the essence, and you can't wait 18+ months to get it done, then have someone do it in Warsaw for you. You can use the template for the power of attorney I provided earlier. Since you are only 1 generation away from a Polish citizen, it should take about the same time it took me. (1 month for the registration of birth, and 8 months to get the Proof of Polish citizenship. Add 6 more months to get a passport) The steps, phone numbers, and addresses provided earlier in this thread througout multiple posts should give you a pretty good head start on the process that you are about to emark on.

Keep in mind that you are not applying for citizenship. You already have Polish citizenship, since your father is a Polish citzen. You are apply for certification that you are in fact a Polish citizen. There is a big difference between the two.

Of course, doing it directly in Warsaw comes with a price. Your contact will need to often be thick skinned to deal with the clerks and may get frustrated at times, (s)he will need to have the time to do some running around from office to office, and you'll need to have complete trust in him or her, since the power of attorney essentially lets them do just about anything in your name in Poland.

If you do it at the consulate, you won't need to register your birth until you're ready to apply for a passport, although registering your birth first seems to make sense regardless of what the consulate says. Once you start with the consulate, they should walk you through everything they need, albit unclearly at times. Be prepared for a long wait, and be aware that once your application is sent you won't hear back until its approved, which could be in a few years, after which you could apply for a Polish passport. Even if you call them in the interim, they will not be able to provide an update to your pending application.

 

I am new to this forum posting, but I have read almost every post in this thread. I have a similar situation to many, but it has its differences.

Both of my paternal grandparents were Polish. Only one was born there and can be proven via civil documents. My grandfather (the citizen) emigrated when he was 2 years ago. He shared a Polish passport with his mother and I am in the process of getting a copy of a copy of it - possibly even the original. Nevertheless, I currently have the Ellis Island ship manifest which lists my grandfather and his mother as well as listing them as "Polish" under nationality.

Will JUST this document be enough to prove decendency for citizenship?

Additionally, we were trying to locate his Polish birth certificate, but not sure if we will be able to. I know this would be a huge help, but I HIGHLY DOUBT there will be anything but UNcertified copies. I am going about this correctly??

Thanks in advance!

 

Keep in mind that neither of these documents explicitely prove Polish citizenship, but they both are very good starting points. The reason an expired passport is not explicite proof, is because the person could have lost thier citizenship along the way since the time the pasport expired by a multitide of actions. The ship manifest, although another great document, is not slam proof either, since "nationality" and "citizenship" are two different things, especially if the person left before 1920. Lastly, depending on which year the person left Poland, and the year they gained foreign citizenship can make a difference. So we need to know what year these things happened.

I think you're on the right track, but ideally if the dates of departure/naturalization fit within the laws, you need to find the originals for these docs. If you absolutley CANNOT get the originals, I would still suggest that you try to proceed with your application on the basis of the copies.

 

I also have access via US records (though I didn't request them yet) for naturalization dates. BUT my grandfather and his mother arrived in the US on 10/10/1921, thus after 1920, which I believe is a positive thing, correct?

Furthermore, since he was 2 years old are arrival, and thus still a minor when his parents gained citizenship in the US (however they did it), he was automatically granted citizenship because he was a minor, which means he did not request it which I read is also a positive thing as well.

Should I get my great-grandparents naturalizations papers as well for any reason?

Thanks

 

If they are easy to get then sure, but I don't think it will make much of a difference.

 

I hate to be negative, but in my conversations with the person I originally dealt with at the Chicago consulate, he said that 1) U.S. arrival records don't mean much...Polish authorities want Polish records showing Polish citizenship, and 2) derivitive citizenship (i.e. U.S. citizenship acquired by a minor thru a parent who naturalized) is still considered as taking a foreign citizenship. I understand that a child has no say in the matter of whether his/her parent becomes a naturalized U.S. citizen, but Polish authorites might still view it as disqualifying. (This is currently an issue in Canada, where the "Lost Canadians", those whose parents took U.S. citizenship while they were minors, are fighting to regain their Canadian citizenship.) In my case, the consulate DID want to see a copy of my father's U.S. naturalization papers, to determine whether he lost Polish citizenship during the 1920-1951 period. I'm not saying to give up, just that the U.S. citizenship issue may be more of a hurdle than you think. One suggestion: you might want to do a Freedom of Information Act request with the USCIS and ask them to search for your grandfather's citizenship application. Since he never requested U.S. citizenship, they may not find anything. If not, you could submit that letter as proof that your grandfather did not request U.S. citizenship during the 1920-51 period. Info here: http://genealogy.about.com/od/immigrati ... equest.htm

 

Thanks for the info. I guess the more info I can get the better off I am. I am just worried I'll get something that will hut me - though I doubt there is because, from what I can gather, it's pretty straight forward. Thanks, though...I'm on the site now.


ALSO, I read on the Polish Embassy's website that they are part of some convention (forget which exactly) at the Hague in which all signatory member's official documents are accept. I.e. US paperwork is sufficient in place of Polish paperwork. It's called an "apostille" document. Read it yesterday... Hope this helps you

 

Yes, an apostille is a certificate/seal that is attached to a document by a Secretary of State (in a U.S. state) or the U.S. State Department (for federal documents) stating that a document (for example, a birth certificate) is authentic. All signatory countries issue apostilles, and it had to be attached to my birth certificate when I submitted it to the Polish Consulate. The fact that a foreign document is accepted as authentic, however, does not mean that the Polish government will accept it to replace a Polish one. The "nationality" indicated on an old ship manifest just means that the immigrant told the person making out the manifest that he/she was Polish, or Russian, etc. It does not mean that they proved their citizenship by showing a passport. If you look at the Ellis Island website, you'll see many manifests from before 1918 where the nationality is given as Polish but the country of origin is given as Germany or Russia. Since Poland didn't even exist as a country during that period, no one arriving in New York could have had a Polish passport.

 

I have access to a copy of passport used (grandfather and his mother shared a passport because he was 2). Possibly even can find the original but very unlikely. The same goes for the Polish birth certificate.

If I can get the Polish birth cert., I should be golden, no?

PS. I already did the paperwork for the INS form you told me to do. I have to call Monday to find out if it needs to to be signed by my grandmother (his next of kin) OR since he is deceased, no one at all... This should establish that he didn't apply for citizenship.

P.P.S. Do I need to have ALL certified documents? I.e. birth certificates, ship manifests, etc etc? or Can copies work as well? I'm going to go for the certified copies, but may not be able to in some cases, especially the passport...

 

1) Request your grandfather's birth certificate from Poland. See here to figure out where to request it from:

http://www.jewishgen.org/infofiles/polandv.html

2) Take the copy you have of your grandfather's Polish passport to a notary. Attach a page where you say something like: "I, John Kowalski, swear that this is a true copy of the original Polish passport of Casimir Kowalski." Have the notary attach his/her seal (pick a notary who has a seal...some just have a stamp).

3) When you get the paper back from the government regarding your grandfather's application for naturalization...assuming it says they found nothing...have the main section translated into Polish. You might want to then attach a statement as in #2 and have it notarized.

4) You will need the U.S. vital records connecting you with your grandfather, so request your grandfather's marriage certificate, your father's birth and marriage certificates, your birth and marriage certificates, and have an apostille attached to each by the state.

5) If the Ellis Island records state that your family came from Poland AND had Polish nationality, it wouldn't hurt to enclose a copy of that also. You might want to have it notarized as outlined above (what's actually being notarized is your statement that it is a true copy). If the manifest says they came from Russia or Germany, then I would not attach it.

Enclose all the above with an application in Polish, a biography in Polish, 2 passport photos, appropriate fee, and send to the Polish consulate for your area. (Or use an agent to apply directly in Warsaw...or use a lawyer.)

I would suggest that you not go out of your way to mention your grandfather's derivitive citizenship. I would let the letter from the U.S. government (stating that no record was found of your grandfather's application...assuming that's what it says) speak for itself.

 

Ever though of going into citizenship law?

You're great, thank you so much! This guide will help me so much.

Two, hopefully, last questions:

My grandfather (and his mother) came over on a ship using HER MOTHER'S maiden name - who knows why. Anyway, nevertheless, it still says "Relative living with: H. Miller [her husband]". Is this a good enough link saying that my grandfather is actually a Miller, not the other name used? I would think so because it directly says he is Father and Husband respectively...

and

Should I use a law firm like I. Charsky to do direct handling? I would like to have some outcome within 10-14 months...?

 

Maybe I would if I knew who would hire me!

With that confusion over the name, I'd suggest just forgetting about the Ellis Island manifest. It's not going to be that helpful anyway. What really matters is the passport and showing your descent from a Polish citizen.

For fastest (but not cheapest) results, I'd go with a lawyer, either Charsky or perhaps one of the others I mentioned in a reply to someone else. One of the lawyers I found was right in Warsaw, which is where the offices you need to deal with are located. The consulate route would take at least 18 months.

 

I'll keep you posted. Thanks for the help

 

Has anyone ever used or heard of this law firm (whose website is being "revised")

http://www.polishcitizenship.pl/

If not, anyone know of another experienced law firm preferably in Poland?

I know alphazip said (s)he posted the named of a few but I can't find them on any page of this thread

Thanks in advance!

 

Here are the links provided by alphazip

http://www.polishcitizenship.net/
http://staczek.com/en/seat.html
http://www.icharsky.com/english.asp

 

I wrote to the Staczek law firm in Warsaw (http://staczek.com/en), just to confirm that they do, indeed, handle citizenship cases. This is the reply:

"My Law Office has handled many cases concerning Polish citizenship and
we are experienced in this field. In such cases we first examine whether
our Client is eligible to obtain Polish citizenship by descent. Then we
assist in the procedure to collect all required documents, such as a
confirmation of his/her Polish citizenship. Finally, the application for Polish
citizenship may be submitted to the Polish authorities."

I have no informatiion on their fees, including whether they charge more or less than the Charsky firm.

 

I actually emailed them earlier today. I also called the law firm in California yesterday but still haven't heard back. Who knows.....

Thank you for the info though, you really helped me a LOT!