Re: Polish Citizenship

It says you need a Polish Birth certificate to get a Polish passport right on the New York Polish Consulate's website:
http://www.polishconsulateny.org/index.php?p=58

Paszport wydawany jest wyłącznie na podstawie polskich dokumentów stanu cywilnego. Oznacza to, że osoby posiadające akt urodzenia lub małżeństwa wydany przez urząd zagraniczny, np. amerykański, powinny umiejscowić te akty w polskim urzędzie stanu cywilnego, właściwym dla ostatniego miejsca zamieszkania lub w przypadku osób urodzonych za granicą, w USC Warszawa Śródmieście

TRANSLATION: [Passports are issued solely on the basis of Polish documents from the civil status office. This means, that persons who have an act of birth or marriage issued by a foreign organization, (for example American) should register these acts in the appropriate Polish civil status office of last residence, or, in the case of persons born outside of Poland, in the Urzad Stanu Cywilnego Warszawa-Śródmieście.]

As of August 2006, they changed the laws, so AFAIK if you do not currently have an unexpired Polish passport, you would need your Polish birth/marriage ceritificates, and also a proof of Polish citizenship document before applying for a passport and a PESEL number.

If you spoke to the London consulate prior to August, then the info they gave you was correct at the time. The consulate may do all of the steps for you in one big step.

I'm not sure, but I think this is the address:

00-281 Warszawa
ul. Jezuicka 1/3
tel. 0 22 504 52 06
faks 0 22 635 52 97
Phone number to call about registering foreign acts of birth and marriage:
tel. 0 22 504 52 49

or

01-627 Warszawa
ul. Słowackiego 6/8
faks 0 22 56 01 316
Phone number to call about registering foreign acts of birth and marriage: tel. 0 22 56 01 314

Here is the web page:

http://www.bip.warszawa.pl/um_www/infor ... ?mn_id=279
http://www.bip.warszawa.pl/um_www/infor ... ?mn_id=644



When you get to the stage for applying for proof of Polish citizenship, you would go to the Urząd Wojewódzki.
http://www.mazowsze.uw.gov.pl/news.php?id=885
Here are the addresses:
http://www.mazowsze.uw.gov.pl/pdf.php?id=267

The cost for the proof of citizenship is as follows:
5 zł. for the application.
50 groszy to make a copy of each attached document / page.
50 zł. to process the application
The payment needs to be made using "Znaki opłaty skarbowej". These are stamps (not postage stamps) that get stuck on to the application to show that the processing fee was paid. The stamps need to be purchased prior to making the application.

 

Pre-1918 rules and Charsky experiences.

Hello,

I have also spoken to I. Charsky about applying for Polish citizenship by descent. My case depends now only on whether my grandfather, who emigrated to Canada in 1928, acquired Canadian citizenship prior to 1939. I am still trying to get this information, but it requires a signature from a family member that is proving difficult to obtain.

Has anyone heard of someone who has completed the process using I. Charsky or another lawyer? I also have a contact in Warsaw, a lawyer who is a friend of a friend, and I am wondering whether I am better advised to go through Charsky or through him should I be eligible.

Both my mother's grandparents emigrated from Poland in the late 1800s. Does anyone else have experience with this?

Many thanks,

Tanya

 

Another update:
My contact in Poland informed me that my wife's proof of citizenship has arrived this week! It arrived by mail from the wojewodstwo where she last lived. It took 2.5 months to get processed (submitted around Aug. 25th, then transferred to the correct wojewodstwo around Oct. 1st). Still much faster than the 18 months it takes the consulate to do the same thing. The funny part is that they sent the request for payment, together with the citizenship document. Usually one would expect the request for payment to come first. Since she was born in Poland to Polish parents, this of course is a slam dunk case, but once I get my proof of citizenship, it should be a slam dunk to get it for my son, since thre will be no question that he qualifies, even though we could proceed with his case only my wife's proof of citizenship. The clerk suggested to wait until both my wife and I have our proof and then submit my son's application using both of our citizenship documents.

 

Re: Pre-1918 rules and Charsky experiences.

I think nymike83 was going to try using Charsky. He may have more insight. My inexperienced opinion is that if you know a lawyer in Poland, then he may be cheaper than to do it through Charsky. Find out how much Charsky will charge, He charges differntly based on the complexity. He quoted my case at $900 Euro. Also consider that although Charsky has representatives working in Poland, he is based in Israel. My opinion is that although Charsky seems qualified, as he claims he done hundreds of these cases, especially ones that need some investigation, if you know a lawyer who can do it for you in Poland, this sounds like a better option than going with Charsky. Your lawyer may be more abreast of the intricate law changes, and of course is "on site" rather than in Israel.

 

This thread has been very helpful. Thanks everyone.

Here is my situation, or rather my husband's situation.

His Grandfather (father's father) was technically born in Jarolsaw, Austria in 1898 due to the moving borders (I think - my Polish history is bad!), but was born to Polish parents, spoke polish etc..

His family immigrated to Canada when he was a child early 1900s.

My husband was born in Canada as was his father.

How difficult would it be to find out his grandfather's status as a Polish Citizen? or for that matter, his great-grandparents' status?

We are looking at the possiblilty of my husband taking out Polish citizenship as we are already living in Europe (both Canadian) and it would certainly make things easier for us in the end.

Can anyone tell me the implications of discovering the status of citizenship prior to 1920?

 

In my case, what was demanded by the Polish authorities was proof that my father (born in what is now Poland before 1918) was a citizen of Poland. This proof had to be a Polish document issued in or after 1918 that described him as a Polish citizen. The reason that 1918 is so important is that before that year (from 1795), Poland did not exist as an independent state. Germany had the western part of Poland, Russia had the eastern part, and Austria had the south. People, even if ethnically Polish, who lived in the areas of Poland controlled by Germany, Russia or Austria were citizens of those countries, not of Poland. Therefore, I think it would be extremely difficult for a descendant of someone who was not resident in the Polish state after 1918 to successfully claim Polish citizenship today. For a difficult case like this, your best bet is probably to contact a law firm familiar with Polish citizenship matters and see what they have to say.

 

Thanks for the response. It clarifies things a little bit for us. We have the family tracking down document because surprisingly, some have survived.

We just have to decide if this is a road we want to pursue and how much cash we want to throw at it.

 

Polish/Canadian Dual Citizenship

Hello,

I am currently a University student in Canada and was wondering what criteria was needed in order to become a dual Polish/Canadian citizenship. I realise that this question has been addressed a couple of times on this forum, but a clear answer for me would be great. My grandfather (deceased) and grandmother were both born in Poland, and moved to Canada in 1915. My father, who has passed away, was born in Alberta, but never attained citizenship simply because he just didn't want to. My aunt, on the other hand, visited my grandfather's village and some extended family this summer, and brought back some of his birth papers et cetera for this very reason.

Firstly, am I eligible to attain dual Polish/Canadian citizensip? Secondly, how long would the process take, and what supporting documents would be necessary? Thirdly, would I address this matter directly to the Polish Consulate here in Canada, or would I have to go directly to the Polish government?

I realise it is a case-by-case matter with these things, but any ballpark answers to the above questions would be very helpful. The idea would be to work in Poland for a time or else expand my horizons without the rest of the EU; a dual citizenship/Polish passport would make this dream more easily attainable. I hope to graduate in a year and a half, but of course I would be willing to wait on this, even though I am itching to go abroad and re-discover my family's roots. I am a history student after all, and my family history is an amazing case study that I would like to expand on. Furthermore, because the economic development and opportunity is almost at its peak in Poland, I do think that living there would be very beneficial on both ends.

Regards.

 

Re: Polish/Canadian Dual Citizenship

Since your granparent's left Poland prior to 1918, during which time that Poland belonged to other countries and it wasn't officially Poland, you would probably need to get a document that shows that he had Polish citizenship. If you can get such a document, the rest should be relatively straightforward, although time consuming

According to Ian Charsky, you probably are. On the other hand, if you try to get this on your own without the help of a lawyer, you might run into some difficult obstacles posed by the Polish authorities. Please read adamsson's posts for more details, as he's been through a similar scenario.

Assuming your Aunt already has the above mentioned document, and you have someone in Poland who can handle this for you, then plan on about 2 months to get your birth registered, 6 months to get a citizenship paper, and another 6 months to get a Polish passport. If you do it through the consulate, plan on about 6 months to get your birth registered, 18 months to get your citizenship papers, and 6 months to get a Polish passport.

If you read through the posts on this thread you'll get a pretty good idea of what needs to be done, and where to go. The process is quite daunting. Alphazip and I have provided a lot of info on this topic to get you started. Also nymike83 has a similar scenario, and I think he was considering hiring a lawyer.

Keep in mind that since the Lebanon evacuation debacle, Canada is currently discussing how to redraft thier citizenship laws, so you may be required to pay Canadian taxes if you live abroad, or worse yet, renounce any foreign citizenship to keep your Canadian citizenship. I've been watching this unfold, as it would affect my situation as well.

 

Thank you for your advice and information. Much appreciated.

 

Update on my situation:

I have received my Polish long-form Birth Certificate on Jan 5th. This took exactly one month and they gave the exact date when the decision would be made already when delivering the papers.

Everything was handled with "direct handling" by my father in Warsaw, with a Power of Attorney written by me, as advised by CuriousGeorge (thanks for all the info you have posted on this topic

Now I should have all the documents ready and will ask my father to deliver application for Confirmation of Possession of Citizenship in similar way... After reading the stuff here I would expect this to take around 2-6 months to process. My case should be pretty straightforward as my father is a current polish citizen with a valid passport and we should have all the docs...

 

Here's an update for me too:

I recently got a letter from the National Visa Center here in the USA. I have a green card, and they wanted proof that I am STILL a permanent resident of the United States. This seems to be a very rare request, and the only reason I can think of why this would occur, is because the Polish authorities made a search for some information about me in the USA. Maybe I'll get an approval soon for my Proof of Polish Citizenship. The application has been pending for almost 6 months now.

 

I've been corresponding with NY Polish Consulate on how to get Polish citizenship for my children.

I was born in Poland in 1969, emigrated to the US in 1979, and am a US Citizen. I have an expired Polish Passport.


Here's what the consulate has given me so far:

Do these instructions appear accurate?

Any recommendation as to where I should translate my children's birth certificates? Do the translations need to be certified in some way?

Odd that no requirement of my Polish Citizenship is requested, nor any request to appear at the consulate.

I appreciate your comments.

Thank You

 

Yes

Prefferably, but it depends more on the consulate. Ideally you shuold get an apostille from the same organization in the US that issues birth certificates, and this will be your certification.

They are not asking for proof of Polish Citizenship because you're just registering your child's birth, not his Citizenship. A Polish birth certificate is NOT proof of Polish Citizenship. Only a document confirming Polish Citizenship can be uses as such proof.

To register your childs birth, the authorities in Poland will look up your birth information in thier files using your name and birth date, and then link your child to that information. As long as your child's US birth certificate has your name as the parent on it, then they can link you both without question. That's why you need the long-form birth certificate for your child, as I recoemmended in my steps previously.

 

My case has come up with a serious obstacle. I received a word from my father that the voivodship didnt accept our application for "direct handling".
Here is what he said:

"I am just coming back from the "Voivodship (Regional) Citizenship Office for Warsaw Region" where I wanted to submit your documents.
Unfortunately I was informed that the President of Voivodship is in charge of giving citizenship in "quick path procedure" (within months) only in the case when the application is done by a parent recognizing the parentship within one year after the birth of the child (in case parents were not married). I was asked for the document prooving the date of recognition."

"In all other cases the President of Republic (i.e. Poland) is in charge and the process goes normal path ("within years") and in case of an adult living abroad the applicant should apply personally for the citizenship via the Polish embassy in the country where his/her address is registered."

"I was cited the "citizenship law" describing this conditions and I will check it after I will find the law in internet."

...
So the situation is that the fathership was recognized when I was already an adult, and my parents were not married at any point. It seems they are trying to make this an obstacle.

But if I have understood the citizenship law correctly, neither of the points should affect my right to citizenship. I'm still officially a son of a polish citizenship (proven by my current birth certificate, and they already gave me a polish one with my fathers name on it) and this alone should count.

Here is a Q/A from polish consulates site:

http://www.polishconsulateny.org/index.php?p=43

Q: I am a Polish citizen. My spouse is a US citizen. Our children are born in the US and are US citizens. Are they also Polish citizens?
A: YES. Children born from couples of mixed nationality loose their Polish citizenship only by parents' declaration made within three months from the child's birth.

I think this also speaks for my view as my situation is similar. And the important thing is that I haven't lost the citizenship at any point as my parents didnt do a declaration for such will within 3 months of my birth.

So maybe this is just an "internal policy" of the voivodship and not exactly supported by the citizenship law.

The good thing is that I didnt receive a "decision" that I couldn't have the citizenship through any route at any point. Now it's only about the right route and how long is it going to take...

Help needed!

I'm starting to seriously consider hiring a lawyer familiar with polish citizenship law as this is getting more complicated than expected and I would prefer not to have any more surprises in this matter.

But if anyone can give any advice (curiousgeorge? it's more than welcome now...

 

adamsson,
Have your father try again. I seem to remember my contact telling me that he had to return a second time as well to get another clerk. The first clerk was not polite, and in fact also said that this must be prcessed at the consulate. My contact returned a few hours later. The second time he insisted to speak to a supervisor, and everything was fine.

The point here, is that you and I have taken an untraditional path. We have provided our contact in Poland with a power of attorney, instead of handling everything at the consulate. The clerks are NOT used to this approach either, but in fact there is nothing wrong with it. This is exacly how a lowyer would handle it. Since the clerks are not familiar with this approach they come up with these excuses, to push back on your contact, when in fact they are only pushing back because they are not sure how to handle it. The supervisors will know how to handle this, the regular clreks may not be.

If a lawyer were to show up in your name with a power of attorney, they would probably process your case without any question, and if they pushed back, the attorney could probably even state the process to them, or speak to a supervisor, but since its not an attorney, this person (in your case your father) needs to be slightly thick skinned when speaking to these clerks. Be a bit more insistant and confident that he is right in filing at the local office, just as the clerks are to him.

Have him try again, and if they push back on him, have him insist on speaking to a supervisor, and explain that he has a power of attorney from you to handle it at the wojewodstwo directly.

Your father may be an older indivisual, and the clerks may feel that they can just push him around. He needs to be aware of this when he goes back.

 

Polish

What a great thread - I've been through this process, and it did take about a year and a half total. I'm now just waiting for my passport to magically arrive via UPS.

Here are some considerations I'd add to the list.

* The passport photo sizes have changed to 3.5cm x 4.5cm - and you have to face forward. I went to a CVS, and one of their machines actually had this size in the settings - but I had to convince the photo lab attendant to search for it (listed in inches - do your math!).

* If you have an old passport form with the old photo size listed, you'll have to fill out the new form. All of the information is the same (luckilly, since I don't speak Polish). I figured this out waiting in line at the Consulate, and filled out the form.

* Don't forget to add in the charge for courier services. The Consulate in New York charges $9 to send all documents to your home (I live in Massachusetts, so can't just run to NYC that often). Of course there's a form for that too - but you just have to sign it and write your address.

Also, my experience is going to the Consulate itself can be very helpful. I visited both the one in NYC and in London during a visit. In London, I showed someone behind a big glass window all my documents and asked what I still needed. She smiled and was very helpful. Calling and e-mailing... not so much.

I felt very accomplished when I went to NYC. I had my PESEL and new passport applications, the correct photographs, my localized birth certificate, my proof of citizenship, and my money order. What an ordeal!

 

I tried to keep this as generic as possible. Use these variables to fill out your specifics in the document.

VARIABLE1: Today's day verbose (ex: czternastego)
VARIABLE2: Today's month verbose (ex: grudnia)
VARIABLE3: Today's year verbose (ex: dwa tysiące siódmego)
VARIABLE4: The date in polish format (ex: 14.XII.2007r)
VARIABLE5: Full name of Notary (ex: John Smith)
VARIABLE6: County
VARIABLE7: State (ex: Alabama)
VARIABLE8: Your full name (ex: JAN KOWALSKI)
VARIABLE9: Your father's first name in possessive form (ex: Tadeusza)
VARIABLE10: Your mother's first name in possessive form (ex: Jadwigi)
VARIABLE11: Your mother's maiden name (ex: Misiaszek)
VARIABLE12: Country from where your current passport is from (ex: USA)
VARIABLE13: Passport Number (ex. XX999999)
VARIABLE14: Your full address of residence, including country.
VARIABLE15: Your birth date in Polish date format (ex: 22.VI.1950)
VARIABLE16: Your city of birth (ex: Nowy Jork)
VARIABLE17: Your country of birth (ex: USA)
VARIABLE18: The full name of the person who your are giving the power of attorney to (ex. John Doe)
VARIABLE19: The person's Polish national ID number (ie "dowód osobisty") (ex:
VARIABLE20: The person's PESEL number
VARIABLE21: The person's full address of residence in Poland
VARIABLE22: Your signature
VARIABLE23: The name of the state where you are at the time of signing
VARIABLE24: The name of the county where you are at the time of signing
VARIABLE25: The name of the country where you are at the time of signing
VARIABLE26: Today's day (ex: 14th)
VARIABLE27: Today's month (ex: December)
VARIABLE28: Today's year (ex: 2007)
VARIABLE29: Notary's signature and STAMP



_____________________________________________________________

AKT NOTARIALNY

Dnia VARIABLE1 VARIABLE2, VARIABLE3 roku (VARIABLE4) przed notariuszem VARIABLE5 w kancelarii notarialnej w VARIABLE6, VARIABLE7 stawił się:

VARIABLE8

Pan VARIABLE8, syn VARIABLE9 i VARIABLE10 z domu VARIABLE11, legitymujący sie paszportem VARIABLE12 nr. VARIABLE13, na stałe zamieszkały pod adresem VARIABLE14.
Tożsamość stawiającego się notariusz ustalił na podstawie paszportu VARIABLE12, którego numer wpisano obok nazwiska.


PEŁNOMOCNICTWO

Ja, niżej podpisany VARIABLE8, ur. VARIABLE15 w VARIABLE16, VARIABLE17, ninieszym upoważniam VARIABLE18, legitymujący się dowodem osobistym numer VARIABLE19, PESEL VARIABLE20, zamieszkał przy VARIABLE21 do wszelkich czynności w Urzędach Stanu Cywilnego łącznie ze składaniem wniosków wszelkiego rodzaju oraz do reprezentowania mnie i działania w moim imieniu na terenie Rzeczpospolitej Polski, oraz do reprezentowania mojej osoby oraz moich interesów przed wszelkimi osobami fizycznymi, prawnymi, instytucjami państwowymi, prywatnymi, spółdzielniami jakiegokolwiek rodzaju, biurami notarialnymi, urzędami celnymi, komunikacyjnymi i innymi, przed bankami, instytucjami finansowymi, sądami, ZUS-em, PZU i Pocztą Polską na terenie Rzeczpospolitej Polskioraz do występowania w mojej osoobie łączenie ze składaniem wszelkich oświadczeń, wniosków, dokumentów i podpisów jakie okażą się niezbędne do realizacji ninieszego pełnomocnictwa.

Koszty wynikające z tego aktu ponosi pełnomocnik. Wypisy tego Aktu można wydawać również pełnomocnikowi.

Akt ten został odczytany, przyjęty i podpisany.
Podpisali: VARIABLE8 i VARIABLE5


VARIABLE22
VARIABLE8



STAN VARIABLE23
POWIAT VARIABLE24
Niniejszym zaświadczam, że powyższe oświadczenie zostało sporządzone dnia VARIABLE1 VARIABLE2 VARIABLE3 roku w VARIABLE24, VARIABLE23, VARIABLE25 i podpisane przez VARIABLE8, którego tożsamość ustaliłem na podstawie paszportu VARIABLE12 nr. VARIABLE13.



STATE OF VARIABLE23
COUNTY OF VARIABLE24
The forgoing instrument was acknowledged before me this VARIABLE26 day of VARIABLE27, VARIABLE28, by VARIABLE8.

__Personally known OR _X_Produced Identification
Type of identifiacation producted VARIABLE12 nr. VARIABLE13


VARIABLE29

 

an update on my case:
My son's application for Proof of Citizenship was submitted last week. The first clerk my contact spoke to at the Warsaw office did not think they could process it, but my contact insisted to speak to a supervisor, and the supervisor said there is no problem. He used the power of attorney shown in my previous message.

Since the application for my son was submitted using my wife's proof of citizenship as a basis to prove her citizenship, (which was approved in October 2006) the supervisor said it should be a relatively straightforward case, and it should be completed very soon. I think the term the clerk used was "its just a formality". I'll keep you posted on how long it takes in a situation like this, which seems to be the exception on this forum, since most people seem to have much more complicated situations basing thier citizenship on grant parents and great-grand parents.

My application is STILL pending. It was submitted in the end of August 2006, so its been pending for 6 months now. I know they contacted the authorities in the country where I live, so it seems things are moving along. I don't expect it to take any where close to the 18 months that have been reported by people doing this through the consulate.

 

Hi- how did you find out they're been in contact with your authorities? I submitted my application through the consulate in LA, who mailed it to Warsaw in July 2006, and have since been informed on the occasions I did manage to get someone on the phone (no easy task) that it should take about 8 months but they won't know anything prior to getting a 'yes' or 'no' from Warsaw.

In case it's not been mentioned yet, the good news is that the Confirmation of Citizenship document is sufficient to allow one to work in the EU according to a lawyer I spoke to in London.