Hi there,
I can only assume that you are polish. Family permit that you are talking about is for your husband to join you to UK.The problem is that you come from accession country and as such the law is not very clear. If you do not have job there yet that makes things even more difficult. If you are economically non active you should have provided proof of savings that would be sufficient to cater for you and your husband for minimum of 6 months. My only suggestion would be to write emails and send fax to who ever may concern at the top level and see what happens.

Good luck

Triple H

 

I found this in the meantime!!!

Not all citizens of these 10 countries will have the same benefits as citizens of the 15 established countries of the EU. Nationals of Cyprus and Malta have complete freedom of movement and are not required to register as workers. .

Self-employed Accession State nationalshave the right to live and work in the UK and are not affected by these regulations.
A national of an Accession State who had leave to enter or remain and the leave was not subject to any restrictions on working (e.g. refugee, spouse of a British citizen or anyone else with ILR or unrestricted leave to remain) does not have to register.
Family members of EEA nationals(meaning non-Accession State EEA) are also exempt from registration, if the EEA national is present in the UK as a worker, self-sufficient person, retired person or student.
Anyone who has worked legally in the UK for a continuous period of 12 months does not have to register and has full welfare benefit rights. The 12 month period may have been before 30 April 2004 or may end after 30 April 2004 – it does not matter, as long as the end of the 12 month period is on or after 30 April 2004.
Family members of Accession State workers

Family members of A8 nationals may apply to reside and work in the UK. Family members are the spouse and children under 21 or who are dependent for workers and spouse and dependent children for others. An application for a family member residence stamp is made on Form EEC3




More reading here:
http://www.iasuk.org/C2B/document_tree/ ... 43&CatID=1

 

Anna,

You definitely shouldn't give up. The situation is a little unclear because the accession countries are in a transition period, but one way to clarify your right is to find out what would happen to a British woman married to a Turkish man who wanted to move to Poland. It should be the same, as the accession countries practice mutuality.

If you can establish that you definitely have the right to take your spouse with you, you should tell the UK Embassy that the delay constitutes an "undue formality." Also, make sure you are not charged money for this permit. It should be free. It is important that you can prove you will go to the UK together with your husband, if they ask.

Have a look at the advice given to UK visa officers concerning the EEA Family Permit (it isn't called a visa):

http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/
The sad thing is that even when Poland becomes a fully-accepted member, the rules will still not be applied properly. I am British, and my wife is Chinese. Many European countries do not, in practice, apply EU law in respect of the right of an EU citizen to travel with their family; Denmark and The Netherlands are two I have personally experienced providing entirely false information to applicants.

 

The Freedom of Movement for EU Citizens in Europe is not automatic and without a condition. It is anchored within an Economic Right. You need have a job in the UK before the EU Right of Residence and Work can be extended to yourself and family.

Without a job you need to prove that you have sufficient Funds (E25,000 +) to take care of yourself and family before you yourself and husband would be given residence.

In addition to the above you also need to prove that you have accommodation of your own. For the fact that his family has written to provide accommodation proves that you are not financially independent and creates a weakness in your application.

My advise is that you first look for a job in the UK and then to apply for your husband to join you. This is the most straight forward and easiest way to go about it.

 

I disagree. The original right of free movement was an economic one, but it has been extended (by Maastricht, I think) to include any purpose.

Check out the link I posted, in particular the part on EEA family permits. The British would not do this unless they had to.

Also, look at http://europa.eu.int/comm/justice_home/fsj/freetravel/right/fsj_freetravel_rights_en.htm

I don't know if this applies to Poland yet, but in the case of the UK, it might.

 

Yes, old EU Nationals do have a right to work and live in any EU country. That right is subject to the following:

European Community law gives EEA nationals a right to live and work in the United Kingdom. This is called a right of residence.

You have a right of residence in the United Kingdom if you are an EEA national and:
you are working in the United Kingdom; or
you do not work in the United Kingdom but you have enough money to support yourself throughout your stay without help from public funds.
Public funds include Income Support, Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit.

http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk
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If that right were automatic there would have been no need for an EU National or Ascencion Member National to complete a Form EEC1 and Form EEC3. Because they could then enter any EU country with their Passports and partners and apply for a Social Security Number to start working.

Both Forms EEC1 and EEC3 specifically requests for your Work Details. The UK and Ireland are the only EU countries with more generous requirements for the new ascencion states. All the other EU countries have firm restrictions for members of the Ascencion states. Netherlands for instance will only issue you with a Permit if you can find a job in less than 5 economic sectors (slaughter -house , flower industry etc). All other sectors are still closed to the new members and would have to go through the same work permit scheme like any non-EU member.

The UK will issue a Work Permit to a Polish citizen based on the Worker Registration Scheme. And this requires that you have a job. As a Polish citizen you are able to travel within the UK and other EU countries without restriction and allowed 6 months to find a job after which you can technically be kicked out (less likely to happen) but it doesn't entitle you to Work/Resident Permit.

The only way you can get access to the Worker Registration Certificate which gives your non-EC Family members a right to live and work in the UK is to have a job in the UK or for that matter any other EU country.

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The Worker Registration Scheme

From May 1 2004, most nationals of the new member states (except Cyprus and Malta) who wish to work for more than one month for an employer in the UK need to register under the Worker Registration Scheme.

Once you have been working legally in the UK for 12 months without a break you will have full rights of free movement and will no longer need to register on the Worker Registration scheme. You can then get a residence permit confirming your right to live and work in the UK.

If you have already registered on the Worker Registration Scheme, and have been working in the UK for 12 months, you may now wish to apply for a residence permit. Further information is available on the Immigration and Nationality Directorate website. You should apply using form EEC1 . If you need further information, please contact the Immigration and Nationality Enquiry Bureau on 0870 606 7766.

 

Yes, you don't have the right to long term residence without a job (or enough money), but as you say, a Polish citizen can travel to the UK and look for work for up to six months. They don't need to answer any questions about funds etc to do so. You normally have the right to travel with your spouse, irrespective of their nationality, while you are looking for work. Once you find work and register as working, your spouse would be allowed to work too. Now, I don't know if this applies to new members. The delay in Anna's application suggests it doesn't. It may also be that Anna has supplied too much information. That is to say, you don't have to answer any questions, other than to ascertain if you are genuinely married and if you are going to both go to the UK.

My Chinese wife automatically - no questions asked, just proof of marriage - gets a French Schengen visa. That is the law, so long as she is travelling with me. Others, like some consulates of the Netherlands and Denmark, mistakenly claim that she is subject to their national law, rather than EU law, or that marriage to me makes no difference to her right to entry.

 

The above applies if you are a National of the old EU-15 Member States. As you yourself have claimed, your Chinese wife have experienced difficulty entering countries like the Netherlands and Denmark.

Furthermore Anna's experience with the British Embassy proves that this is not a straight forward issue. Because she is with a non-EU spouse who needs to apply for an Entry Permit to the UK before even being allowed to board a Carrier in Poland.

The legal status of citizens of the New EU Ascension States comes with a whole grey area which may be determined in the coming years by an ECJ court decision or National Courts as cases are made against authorities. For the moment a lot depends on the discretion of the Entry Clearance Officer at the Embassy. To clarify areas where he or she is unsure of, he will forward the Application to the office at London for a Senior Officer to make a decision. This is likely what may have happened in Anna's case.

One of the fundamental anchors of the Freedom of Movement is the protection of individual country's Social Security system from uncontrolled access by other EU citizens. This is the reason why EU country's will allow you a Permit on prove that you are economically self-sufficient. To further expose yourself to officials at the Embassy that you will be relying on accommodation from relatives does weaken one's application.

To eliminate all the discretions, uncertainties and delays, it will be advisable for Anna to go out there, get a job, apply for the Worker Registration Scheme and then invite the husband in.

 

I agree with what you say, although I think Polish people already have the same rights to travel as the old EU-15, just not to work. I definitely agree Anna shouldn't have mentioned the issue of relying on family for accommodation, but ultimately I think she'll get the permit.

On the question of my wife, it's not true to say she has problems entering the Netherlands or Denmark: it's just she has problems getting a Schengen visa from them. A Schengen visa issued in a law-abiding EU state, like France, will suffice for entry to the Netherlands or Denmark.

 

Most of the INFO you give is incorrect!!!

Hi, I disagree. My wife is from Lithuania, I am from Bulgaria. I got my EEA Family PErmit in 25 minutes. Non EEA family members of new EU contries have the same rights of family members of old EU contries. They can work right away if they want. Also New EU countries can live in the EU as long as they want if they are self sufficient(can support themselves). They can work without work permit. Once they find a job and START the job they have to register the job which is rather automatic proccess. Ok, if the EU national is not working, but the non eu family member is, the EU national can apply for residence permit as a self sufficient person (through the income of the spouse). This is valid even for accession countries. Check the IND European Directorate Instructions at: http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/ind/en ... /edis.html

So the family permit is a right not a priveledge. Check the Diplomatic Service Procedure at www.ukvisa.gov.uk
look for the European Dimension Chapter.

Hope that helps.

Disclaimer: This advice is my opinion and I will not take any responsibility for it, please see a solicitor if you want a proffesional advice.

 

Re: Most of the INFO you give is incorrect!!!

If your wife is a student, a worker or a person of self-sufficent means and can prove, there shouldn't be any problem for the non-EU partner getting a Permit.

And as has been proven by the case of Anna and other Accession member nationals on this forum it is not a done deal that without an economic acitivity or ability to prove self-sufficiency your non-EU spouse would be granted a permit to stay. The authorities will look at the likely hood of becoming a burden on the State. And the burden of proof is on you the applicant to show that you either have a job or an independent means of sustenance.

In even an old EU country like the Netherlands, the non-EU Partner of a UK National will not be issued with an EU Resident Card without a proof of the UK Partner having an economic actvity in the Netherlands. It is even worse in Denmark where they demand to see a set level of Minimum wage (in violation of the Treaty Rules) from the EU partner.

Secondly the only countries within the old EU that allows the Accession countries unrestricted access to their labour markets are the UK and Ireland. All the other countries have restrictions one way or the other in place. They either have a time limit to phase in access to their labour market or restrict access to certain strategic sectors (like in the Netherands where it applies both). So it is not a free market as per say. This is the reason why there is a number of complaints that Europe is now a two-tier Europe with the accession countries treated as second-class Europeans.

The only two countries amongst the accession states which seem to have unrestricted access to EU markets are Malta and Cyprus (they are even exempted from the UK Worker Registration Scheme which applies to Poland and the others). This I believe is due to the size of their population to which no country sees as a threat.

With Anna, the best option whilst waiting for a decision from the Embassy in Warsaw, is to go to the UK, get a job and simultaneously make an application for the Workers Registration Scheme in addition to the Resident Permit for the husband. This removes any discretion and uncertainties about the residence status of her husband as the non-EU spouse of a non-economic accession citizen. It could take less than 2 weeks to get a job in the UK but another 4-6 months relying on the discretion of the Home Office.

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Restrictions on working in the EU for new member states
27 February 2004

Of all 15 EU member states, only Ireland has decided not to restrict access of Central and Eastern European migrants to its labour markets from 1 May.

Below you will find details of what restrictions are planning to be put on migrants from eight of the ten new accession countries by current EU member states. These restrictions will not apply to citizens of Malta and Cyprus.

Austria

Austria, like Germany, has always taken a tougher stance on this issue. The current work permit system will apply to nationals of the new EU member states for at least two years, whereafter the restrictions will probably be extended for a further five years.

Belgium

Belgium, already having quite a difficult work permit regime, also plans to apply restrictions for up to two years after 1 May. During this period the government can apply any restrictions whatsoever without justification.

Denmark

During the summer of 2003, Denmark had originally pledged to let migrants from the 10 new EU member states work without any restrictions, but has meanwhile changed its mind. Immigrants from these countries will be able to go to Denmark for up to six months, but will have no automatic access to benefits. However, if these job-seekers are successful, they will be granted residence and work permits.

Finland

Finland had also been considering to open up its labour market completely to immigrants from Eastern Europe. However, the governemtn has decided to apply restrictions for at least two years after 1 May. During this period migrants from the new member states will be able to get a job without a work permit only if the employment office decides there is no-one available to fill the position from within the local labour market. If there is no shortage, then a work permit application will need to be made. After these first two years the government will then decide if this policy is to continue.

France

France's rather difficult work permit system will be maintained for two years from 1 May. Immigrants who are granted work permits (depending on a job offer, high salary, qualifications. etc.) will be able to claim the same social security benefits as French citizens. Their family members will also be able to have full access to the labour market. A different system will continue to apply for seasonal workers, au pairs, students and researchers.

Germany

Like Austria, Germany has also taken a tough stance on this issue. Germany plans to maintain the existing work permit scheme, including the German Green Card process, for the initial two years and is likely to extend this for up to seven years. Nevertheless, existing deals with new EU member states would continue to apply, as with Polish seasonal workers.

Greece

Greece, like Belgium, also plans to impose restrictions on their labour market for at least two years from 1 May. The new government to be elected on 7 March will make a final decision on what these restrictions will comprise and whether they will be extended for another five years.

Ireland

Ireland, as mentioned above, is the only current EU member state that will welcome workers from the new EU member states without imposing any restrictions on its labour market. Currently, the Irish government is also giving priority to Eastern Europeans for work visas/permits over other non-EU nationals. However, in order to prevent abuse of the benefits system, Ireland will be proposing changes to its social welfare code in the near future.

Italy

The Italian government has still not made a final decision on whether to apply any restrictions to its labour market for two years after 1 May.

Luxembourg

Luxembourg intends to restrict access to its labour market for at least two years after 1 May.

The Netherlands

Like Sweden and Denmark, the Netherlands initially intended to let migrants from the EU accession countries work without restriction in Holland, but also changed their stance. There was to be a quota of 22,000 immigrants allowed to enter the Netherlands for work purposes from the new EU member states during the first year. However, the government has now decided to impose even tighter restrictions to reflect public opinion and wishes of MPs, who want to approve work authorisation only in cases where there is a proven shortage of Dutch nationals. However, in certain areas where the Netherlands is short on workers, it will become easier and quicker for employers to obtain work permits for their foreign employees.

Portugal

Portugal will impose restrictions for at least two years from 1 May and will continue to issue work permits. However, the government has an annual quota of 6,500 work permits on all foreign workers, so any new work permits issued to new EU nationals must fall within this quota. The government will consider the neccesity of this policy after the initial two years.

Spain

Spain's already difficult work permit system will be further burdened by restrictions for at least two years after 1 May. During this period the government can apply any restrictions whatsoever without justification.

Sweden

Sweden, like Denmark and the Netherland, Sweden initially intended to let migrants from the EU accession countries work without restriction, but they have changed their stance. The Swedish government is especially worried about "benefits shopping" in light of its generoous social welfare system. The existing liberal work permit scheme (requiring merely a job offer in a skilled position) will remain in place for at least two years, subject to approval by parliament.

United Kingdom

The UK, as mentioned on our website, has recently announced its policy on this issue. The UK had initially pledged to open its labour market completely to new EU nationals after enlargement, but is now saying that migrants will have to "register" and may in fact need a work permit. The main aspect of the plan is that these migrants will only be able to claim certain welfare benefits if they have worked continuously in the UK for at least a year. The government seems to have taken a tough stance but in practice, there will be nothing to "ban" migrants from Eastern Europe in finding a job in the UK. Furthermore, some benefits will be available immediately for those who have a job.

www.workpermit.com

 

we came together for the first time

She wasn't any of the above. She decided to come to britain and wanted me to go along. so we went to the embassy and she told them that I am accompany. They gave me the permit. So even for a visit you qualify for EEA permit if you travel with the EEA national.

 

Yes, Petkanov, your experience is my understanding of the rules, too. If an EEA national (except the UK) wants to bring a non-EEA partner to the UK, they must be given a family permit quickly and for free, unless the visa officer suspects it's a sham marriage or is sure they intend to become a burden on the state. I posted a direct link to the instructions given to the visa officer in my first post. He is not allowed to ask you what the purpose of your travel is, nor how you will fund it, so he can really only ask about the genuineness of your marriage.

In Anna's case, I have a feeling the problem is that she has identified the fact that she is looking for work and does not have enough funds to be independent while she does this, therefore the visa officer can legally suspect that they are going to be a burden on the state. Having said that, they should have reached a decision either way by now.

 

Congratulations Ania!

I was reading all the posts in this thread and got a bit of education myself. I have to admit, there IS a big grey area when it comes to the rules and how they apply to the New Accession States. My wife is Polish and we've been researching and reading stuff since we were in the US. I got a bit lucky with my permit, I got it in 5 business days. I don't know if this has to do with zero tolerance for red tape in the US, but mine was processed within an acceptable amount of time.

So Ania, hopefully you're on your way here to the UK, and maybe you and my wife can have a chat (being polish and all).

But nonetheless, congratulations!

 

Hello, i am new to the group and wondering if anyone can hel

Hello,

I'm conducting research into the experiences of Polish born people now living in the UK, especially their working experiences and education. It is for my Undergraduate Dissertation in Geography. The dissertation aims to look at the experiences of people from Poland who now live in the UK, and, in the light of Poland joining the European Union, how valuable they can be as members of British society. If you are now living in the UK and were born in Poland, I would be very interested in interviewing you about your experiences. This could take the form of a MSN Messenger or Yahoo Instant Messenger conversation at a time specified by you, for your convenience.


Alternatively, i can send you a questionnaire that will ask roughly the same kinds of questions that I would ask you in an interview, just give me an email requesting one. I hope to make the interviews as rewarding as possible, and hopefully the opportunity to talk about experiences and future plans will be a valuable chance for reflection. Also, your anonymity is assured.


If interested, please contact me at si_miller49@hotmail.com

Thank You

Simon Miller