When my case was submitted directly in Warsaw, I was told a decision would be made in 6 to 8 weeks. That's a lot shorter than the 2 years quoted by the consulates.

I was sent a letter by the Wojewoda in Warsaw saying I had 2 months to get them a slew of translations certified at the consulate, my passport, grandparent's passport, etc. I called them and explained that it'll take more than 2 months just to get some of the docs back, let alone certified at the consulate and sent back to Poland. I now have til mid-May (I was able to request an extension). The thing that's such a pain is that each person does it differently there, so some are more strict than others and I guess I go the strict one.

 

I have a written document from the consulate and I will give you the rules I have. I believe they are similar.

"The office in Warsaw requests for sending all needed documents within 3 months upon the receipt of this letter or you can send to our Consulate the written indication about how much time you need for obtaining all required documents.
The office in Poland assigned a deadline for (month day year) by which the case should be completed. After this deadline the office in Poland will make their decision based on the already received documents."

The problem with calling is, it is informal, you always get a random different person, the person wants to give you a quick answer and they seek to get you off the phone as soon as possible. So, if the mid-May date becomes an issue, then I would recommend a letter communicating that you need time with an explanation of the process you must go through to get the documents certified. I would follow up your letter with a phone call just to assure they have received your letter.

 

That's the letter I got, exactly.

They asked me to fax or mail (the actual woman handling my case) a letter to them requesting additional time, and requesting a date. I did this and I'm sure it worked, only because I would certainly know by now if it hadn't. The letter said if they didn't have X,Y,Z they would just decide the case immediately based on what they had, which technically was everything, just not stamped translations. They gave me only 2 months to do it, and I believe I was sent the letter in November, which would mean I'd have a response now.

Also, the person who was acting on my behalf with my power of attorney is no longer available to me. Do you think if I send a letter with the certified translations they requested, asking them to forward all correspondence to me in the US, they would? (they would send it to the consulate and then they'd forward it to me). I'm just not sure if you can change the contact mid-case.

 

I think if you ask them to send it to your US consulate they would.

The power of attorney document does not take away your legal rights it just extends them to an "agent" (another person).

If they refuse to send information to the US, which I don't think will happen, you can always give a lawyer in Poland power of attorney.

 

Excellent points. I'll keep everyone updated.

 

ABOUT CHEATER CHARSKY!

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1074123.html

 

Sue --- which laywers have you had the most luck with?

 

Polish Citizenship Lawyers in Poland

Polish Citizenship Lawyers:
Łukasz Piotrowski http://www.polishcitizenship.org/
Krzysztof Banek http://polish-citizenship.pl/home/
Piotr Staczek http://staczek.com/en/
Christopher A. Kerosky http://www.polishcitizenship.net/html/about.html

You might want to email them all, explain your case, and see which ones respond. Most evaluate your case, if it is simple, for free. Tell them what you want them to do for you and ask them their fees. For example the fee may vary depending on if he has to find your documentation, translate it, submit it etc. vs. if you do everything yourself and he is just submitting your case for you. Also if the eventual goal is to apply for more people than just yourself (your children, brother, sister) then mention that because you might be able to get a better price if you do a group of people.

 

Re: Polish Citizenship Lawyers in Poland

I can personally say that Piotr Staczek wanted to charge me $600 or so for him to tell me if I was eligible for citizenship, even though I specifically told him how I clearly was eligible beforehand. I did not proceed with him for this reason.

 

Hi: Just starting the process of confirmation of citizenship. The clock officially starts ticking on April 1! We'll see how long it will take.

I am from Toronto, Canada (close to the Polish consulate), but have elected to pursue my application through a lawyer in Poland.

Currently I have contacted both Piotrowski and Staczyk with an outline of my case and request for fees. Both responded within two days of my orginal request and both wrote back in English.

In my initial summary of my case, I asked for their opinion on which ancestor would produce a higher likelihood of success. Both responded with the same answer : my father.

I was asked to send my more important documentation for their review via e-mail so that they could assess my case more specifically, Staczyk said this was to be done free of charge. It seemed reasonable to examine some of the more important documentation before listing fees etc. I told them I would get it to them over the next few days.

Piotrowski's English is not as strong as Staczyk, but he seems like the local heavyweight. He cited that he has prepared 1500 cases for confirmation.

I will share fee information when I get it.

Regards and wish me luck

 

Hi:
Thought I would provide an update. One of the lawyers I had contacted, got back to me yesterday saying I could "probably" get confirmation but he was worried about article 9 of the 1951 statute:

Art. 8.
1. A child born in Poland, whose one parent is a Polish citizen and the other is a citizen of another country, acquires Polish citizenship, unless within one month from the birth of the child both parents state in the presence of a proper authority that they chose for the child the citizenship of the country, a citizen of which is the other parent, providing that the country allows for this.

Art. 9.
The regulation of Art 8 is valid also for children who were born abroad and one of the parents is a citizen of Poland, providing that the country, a citizenship of which is the other parent, has the same regulations about citizenship of a child of parents with different citizenship.

He told me that I need to verify whether Canada had the same citizenship regulations in place as Poland at the time of my birth. WHAT??? I checked the relevant Canadian Citizenship Act (1946) and saw that it was similar , but not the same. Canadian laws were actually rather discriminatory to married Canadian women. A married Canadian woman who had a child abroad could not bestow her Canadian citizenship onto the child, but the father could. That piece of stupid legislation was finally amended in 1977.

Anyway, has anyone encountered the interpretation of Article 9 to be a problem with their own application? This is not a Canada-only issue.
Any stories to share?

On with the rest of my story:

I went to visit my mother yesterday evening. I was a little bit dejected/worried about possible interpretive issues with Article 9, so I discussed it with my mother. By way of background, I am seeking confirmation through my father.

With very little to lose, I asked her if she might have anything by way of documentation that might be helpful to me. After looking at me like I was an idiot (she was loaded onto cattlecars by the Russians bound for Siberia, was orphaned in Siberia, made her way to Persia with a group of other Polish orphans and eventually was sent to a Polish orphanage in India, where she sat out the war for 5 years) she wrinkles her brow and says that she remembers that she has a Travel Document. She brings out an ancient envelope and shows me the document. It is basically the document she travelled on to leave the UK and enter Canada. The document was issued to "stateless" people uprooted by the war (a non-national Travel Document ). Although an interesting piece of memorabilia, not very helpful for my case.

She starts to put the document back in the ancient envelope, when something falls out of the envelope!
Paszport!!! issued in 1945 to my mother by the Polish consulate in Bombay. Yes, Bombay!! How cool is that? Needless, to say I am VERY excited.

In addition to her Polish Paszport, I have a number of other documents including i ) the Travel Document I mentioned above, ii) her original landed immigrant card for Canada (Jan. 16, 1950), iii) her original Canadian citizenship certificate (1955), iv) marriage certificate - certified copy (1956) and v) expired Canadian passport ( for signature verification).

I don't have a birth certificate, but her place of birth and date of birth are on her passport. She comes from a tiny little osada named Chlewiszcze (still within Poland, basically on the border of Bialo- Russia). I could possibly initiate a search to get a copy of her birth certificate by contacting the appropriate wojewodstwo/church.

Anyway, that's my story so far.
Both lawyers have been responsive and helpful. I would recommend either one.

Been quiet around here lately...drop a line

 

Very interesting, siuniab! Sounds like great news!

It turns out my family is from 30 miles south of where your mother is from, in a town called Biala Podlaska.

 

Hi alyehoud:

At least your family's ancestral home is "findable" on a map, Chlewiszcze is tiny. I suspect it would only contain a small collection of people and farms.

Anyway, I hope the local church/wojewodstwo has kept good records.

How goes your battle?

Regards,

 

I think there is a misunderstanding with what your lawyer is asking. The law does not have to be the same, it just can't obstruct the inheritance of Polish citizenship. He wants to know if your father may affect your citizenship claim.

I assume your father is Canadian and you were born in Canada.

I think your lawyer is considering your case from a European perspective. In most old world countries there are rules that decide which citizenship a child gets in the case of the parents having two different citizenships. The laws of both countries will regulate if the child can have only one, can have both and how it is decided.

Canadian Citizenship Act 1946 tells you how people gain Canadian Citizenship (birth in Canada, naturalization), how one loses it (voluntarily getting a foreign citizenship), but it does not restrict gaining citizenships involuntarily (by blood inheritance).

Long story short.... there is nothing in the Canadian Citizenship Act 1946 that should be a problem for you.

 

Hi Harjeet:

Thanks for responding. Actually, both my parents are Polish and were born in Poland in the late 1920s. They became Canadian citizens through naturalization in the mid-1950s. I initially began the confirmation process through my father, because I thought my mom had little to offer in terms of documentation. The discovery of her Polish passport may change the situation somewhat. I have updated both lawyers with my discovery and have provided them with additional info (landed immigrant document, citizenship document, marriage certificate etc). It will be interesting what they recommend now. I have also asked both lawyers for clarification regarding the interpretation of Article 9.

I'll keep you posted.
Feeling more optimistic after yesterday.

I was given a timeline of about 12 months to receive confirmation for myself , and then another 2 months after that for my kids. Not sure how realistic that is, we'll see. Not too fussed about the timing, as long as the outcome is positive.

 

According to the Polish Citizenship Act 1951 you can claim through your father or mother, so whichever turns out to be easier. An old passport is a super start because a passport typically defines citizenship!

Why I think article 9 does not apply to you.

If I remember correctly Poland (after 1951) only allows Poles to lose citizenship with the permission of Polish authorities, hence they would have had to have asked Poland to become Canadians and I believe Poland would have made them formally renounce their Polish Citizenship to do so. Your parents would remember if they renounced Polish Citizenship because it was a long, difficult process. In the eyes of Poland your parents are Poles and therefore doesn't "recognize" their Canadian Citizenships. Poland should see your parents as married Poles having a Polish child abroad.

 

More interesting developments...

One of the lawyers got back to me to answer some of my questions regarding i) next steps: how to proceed now that my mother's (expired) passport has been found and ii) fee discussion.

I was a little surprised by his suggestion:

"Most probably, there would be no need to confirm any of your parents' Polish citizenship. Your mother has a Polish passport and I would suggest applying for a new passport in her case. As regards your application, I would attach a certified copy of your mother's Polish passport and your father's documentation as supplemental information to prove the Polish citizenship of your parents."

Wow, that would sure simplify matters.
Thoughts welcome.

 

Now that your case is a lot simpler consider this:

Your mother applies for new passport (You do this without the help of the lawyer);

With a lawyer you will need to do this:
1. Send certified copies documents in your possession confirming your Polish ancestry (your mum's passport and if you want a few other documents);
2. Buy Birth certificate long form , have them copied and certified;
3. Copy of current identification (typically Canadian passport) mailed to him;
4. Once you are certified, your children are certified (children birth certs, your marriage cert).

Fees mum's passport application, birth certificate long form (you and X children), translations/copy fees of all of your documents (~11 pages? 2 passport pages mum, 2 pages travel documents, birth certificate + 2 children, 2 pages your Canadian passport, 1 page marriage cert), mailing your stuff to Poland, lawyer fee for you and children.

OR


Normal application process from Canada (list I got from Vancouver Consulate) without lawyer:
1. Application to "wojewoda" (application form 23 questions);
2. Letter requesting Confirmation of Polish Citizenship;
3. A detailed autobiography in Polish your Polish ancestry (easy considering it is your parents);
4. Signed Resume (not sure why?);
5. 2 passport photos;
6. Documents in your possession confirming your Polish ancestry (your mum's passport and if you want a few other documents) certified copies;
7. Canadian citizenship (not really applicable because you will send your Canadian birth cert and a copy of your Canadian passport.);
8. Birth certificate long form;
9. Sign and date a declaration document concerning -have you ever acquired foreign citizenship - have you ever renounced citizenship (literally a letter with your name, I was born in Canada Place Date etc. I do not have foreign citizensh >sign and date your name);
10. Copy of current identification (typically Canadian passport);
11. Once you are certified, your children are certified (children birth certs, your marriage cert).

Fees mum's passport application, birth certificate long form ( you and X children), translations/copy fees of all of your documents (~16 pages? 1 page app form, 1 page letter request, 1 page autobio, 1 page resume, 2 page mum' passport, 2 pages travel documents, birth certificate + 2 children, 1 page signed document, 2 pages Canadian passport, 1 page marriage cert), mailing your stuff to Toronto or delivering it, passport photos, application fee 124 CAD per person (124 CAD you + 124 CAD child 1 + 124 CAD child 2 etc);

I might have missed a few expenses and documents that will be required in both cases, but you should get the general idea.

Therefore, the extra work if you do it yourself:
1. Application;
2. Letter;
3. Autobiography;
4. Signed Resume;
5. 2 passport photos;
6. Declaration document

If your mum/you knows Polish she/you can fill out the application form, write the request letter, autobio and declaration document with $0 expense to you. If not you will incur translation costs for them. I believe translation costs $10-15 per page.

Do some quick math and see if the lawyer adding the value of what he is charging you?

 

I should be sending out all of my final paperwork on Monday. This should be the rest before I receive Confirmation...!

 

I'll be sending good luck vibes your way!