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Info Family Member (non-EEA) of an EEA Family Permit for UK.

Forum General British immigration issues, visa, citizenship, EEA forms, marriage and dual nationality discussions.: General British immigration issues, visa, citizenship, EEA forms, marriage and dual nationality discussions.

Re: Info Family Member (non-EEA) of an EEA Family Permit for UK.

Postby joneeboy74 » Mon Sep 15, 2014 12:43 pm

Oh, I've found how to send a PM. Its on every post. I must be blind. So expect message!

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Re: Info Family Member (non-EEA) of an EEA Family Permit for UK.

Postby s_l_h_3 » Mon Sep 15, 2014 2:18 pm

Hi John,

Thanks a lot for your prompt reply. That is some useful information! I have a quick question to ask though. Do I need to have a health cover as well or is it only her that requires one? I am asking as I have come across some confusing arguments regarding this matter with different opinions.

P:S I have emailed the health advisor you recommended and I am awaiting his reply. Thanks!

Best regards,

Rehan

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Re: Info Family Member (non-EEA) of an EEA Family Permit for UK.

Postby joneeboy74 » Mon Sep 15, 2014 3:11 pm

Hi Rehan
I'm not sure about health cover for you, if you are here as a student. You've reminded me about your common on the EHIC, whether it is ok, if you are here as a student. I know that the EU ruled that all EU students should be covered equal to citizens of the host nation, but the UK took no notice of it. That was a while back. I will have another look into it.

In the meantime, it won't do any harm to get quotes from both you and your wife. I know definitely if you were classed as a 'worker', then you would not need cover, and it does not have to be full time work. It does not even say how many hours. I will get back to you.

Oh, if you give that adviser a telephone number he can call you, ask you anything he needs to know, and tell you about the cover. Then it won't cost you anything, and its quicker. That's what I did, but I can't remember his phone number

Regards

John

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Re: Info Family Member (non-EEA) of an EEA Family Permit for UK.

Postby s_l_h_3 » Thu Sep 18, 2014 3:45 pm

Hi John,

I had my wife covered with AVIVA :). The information you provided was crucial to my choice. Thanks a lot. I havent get a cover for myself yet. I am sort of waiting what you would suggest on that. So I have the cover up and running, my bank statements ready, a year worth of remitance advice letters from the university as a proof of their payments, 2 pictures, the payment (£55), and the mariage certificate translated. Have I forgot anything? Do I need to prepare a personal statement? If yes, what would it be for? Thanks in advance.

Best regards,

Rehan

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Re: Info Family Member (non-EEA) of an EEA Family Permit for UK.

Postby joneeboy74 » Fri Sep 19, 2014 6:56 pm

Hi Rehan,

You seem have got almost everything covered. I'm away from home for the weekend, but I'll have a look through everything as soon as I can and let you know what I find.

Regards

John

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Re: Info Family Member (non-EEA) of an EEA Family Permit for UK.

Postby s_l_h_3 » Fri Sep 19, 2014 7:48 pm

Hi John,

Thanks a lot and hope you have a nice weekend.

Best regards,

Rehan

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Re: Info Family Member (non-EEA) of an EEA Family Permit for UK.

Postby s_l_h_3 » Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:02 pm

Hi John,

After some digging I think I should get myself covered as well. Check this out http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... 63205.html

These are few recent refusals based on the fact that either the applicant or the EEA weren't covered. It looks like the UKBA isn't taking much notice of the actual EU regulations as you rightly said. What do you think?

Also, I've been told by the insurance company that policy documents can take up to 10 days to arrive. However, I asked for an emailed copy so I can print the documents out myself. Do I need to wait for the original papers so I can send my application to the UKBA or is a printed version from the emailed copy fine? What exactly do I need to send as proof of the cover?

Lastly, I have had different opinions on the payment method. I had somebody telling me today, for the first time, that I must pay the cover for the whole year in advance if it is for a visa appliation. Could you please let me know if your daughter in law paid her cover for the whole year or on a monthly basis.

Regards,

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Re: Info Family Member (non-EEA) of an EEA Family Permit for UK.

Postby moonppk » Sun Jan 25, 2015 2:22 am

Am a citizen of Pakistan and got married with Latvian girl in cyprus..On 1st of May 2013 I travel without EEA Family Permit from Cyprus (Paphos Airport-Manchester Airport) and was able to get 6 months entry without even having any EU Family Member residence card but travelled with my EU Wife through Ryanair. We both of us had valid passports and marriage certificate attested by Ministry of Foreign Affiairs of Cyprus….But on 8th of October 2014 we decided again to travel United Kingdom without visa from Cyprus but this time having EU Family residence card issued by Cyprus, Ryanair denied boarding for me and we lost money for tickets..So on 20th October 2014 we came to Latvia and got EU Family residence card which is issued under EU rules not by Latvian national immigration rules and valid for 5 years. Now I have applied EEA Family Permit, I applied EEA Permit on 23rd December and today is 25-January-2015 still waiting for the decision…..I contacted UKBA via email on 20th January and they replied that keep patience and wait because your application is in process…

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Re: Info Family Member (non-EEA) of an EEA Family Permit for UK.

Postby joneeboy74 » Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:42 pm

You have not stated why you are posting, or exactly where you are at present. If you already have a Latvian EEA Residence Card, why are you applying for an EEA family Permit? That does not make sense. Where did you apply to? EEA Family Permits are not issued by UKBA. They are issued by UK Embassies or consulates, though in some countries, applications have to be made through a UK Government appointed 'Application Centre'. If you are seeking advice, or the answer to a question, you need to clearly state what you want to know, otherwise nobody can help you.

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Re: Info Family Member (non-EEA) of an EEA Family Permit for UK.

Postby moonppk » Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:15 pm

My wife is from Latvia and currently we are living in Latvia..i applied EEA Family Permit in Latvia through Teleperformance and they sent my visa apllication to Poland where decision will be made..today is 26th of January and still waiting for the decision...yes i have EU family member residence card card which was issued to me on 2nd of december 2014. As me and my wife have lived in Cyprus more than 1 year...there I also got eu family member residence card and my wife got registration certificate..later we moved to latvia on 20th october 2014. I dont know why uk is taking lot of time tomake decision regarding eea family permit...i used to know that it takes 15 working days..

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Re: Info Family Member (non-EEA) of an EEA Family Permit for UK.

Postby Cyrilexpat » Mon Jan 26, 2015 1:43 pm

s_l_h_3 wrote:Thanks, eventhough I havent been brougt up in Libya, it is one of those places that I enjoy the most in all sort if senses. I will definitely let you know how things went on my return, not to worry about that. Take care!

Hello s_l_h_3.
Did you go to Libya eventually?
We would appreciate your help and input in the forum about Libya posting your own topics and also helping in providing answers in the many topics we have opened to help expatriates (recognisable with a ? Image)
Many thanks in advance :thumbup:
Take a few seconds to upload a :arrow: profile photo: it will be nicer and all your messages will have a much greater visibility 8-)
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Re: Info Family Member (non-EEA) of an EEA Family Permit for UK.

Postby joneeboy74 » Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:14 pm

moonppk wrote:My wife is from Latvia and currently we are living in Latvia..i applied EEA Family Permit in Latvia through Teleperformance and they sent my visa apllication to Poland where decision will be made..today is 26th of January and still waiting for the decision...yes i have EU family member residence card card which was issued to me on 2nd of december 2014. As me and my wife have lived in Cyprus more than 1 year...there I also got eu family member residence card and my wife got registration certificate..later we moved to latvia on 20th october 2014. I dont know why uk is taking lot of time tomake decision regarding eea family permit...i used to know that it takes 15 working days..


You still have not explained what you are trying to do. If you have a Latvian EEA Residence card, why are you not using it to enter the UK? Why are you applying for a Family Permit at all? What is the purpose of you going to the UK? Is it for visit, or to work? Will you be travelling to the UK with your wife, or joining her there? Do either of you already have a job in the UK, or are you intending to look for a job?
As for why applications are taking longer, it could be due to a big backlog. It could also be because UKBA are being more careful. You may be aware that there has been recent bad publicity here in the UK, involving sham marriages between Pakistani and Indian men, and Latvian women, for the purposes of gaining UK residence. So genuine applicants are suffering because of that.
One other thing. When you entered the UK with your wife, but without either a Family Permit or a Residence Card, the Immigration officer was using 'discretion', as permitted by UK 'Immigration Rules', but were there any restrictions placed on you at that time? Did the UK Immigration Officer give you any papers telling you to 'normalise' your status in any way?
It may be just that you are having to wait for a backlog to be cleared, and your FP will arrive as normal soon. You should be able to check its progress online, but don't hold your breath. Just this month, my wife had already been in the UK for 3 days before UKBS confirmed her FP had been issued. Good luck with yours.

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Re: Info Family Member (non-EEA) of an EEA Family Permit for UK.

Postby moonppk » Mon Jan 26, 2015 10:33 pm

joneeboy74 wrote:You still have not explained what you are trying to do. If you have a Latvian EEA Residence card, why are you not using it to enter the UK? Why are you applying for a Family Permit at all? What is the purpose of you going to the UK? Is it for visit, or to work? Will you be travelling to the UK with your wife, or joining her there? Do either of you already have a job in the UK, or are you intending to look for a job?
As for why applications are taking longer, it could be due to a big backlog. It could also be because UKBA are being more careful. You may be aware that there has been recent bad publicity here in the UK, involving sham marriages between Pakistani and Indian men, and Latvian women, for the purposes of gaining UK residence. So genuine applicants are suffering because of that.
One other thing. When you entered the UK with your wife, but without either a Family Permit or a Residence Card, the Immigration officer was using 'discretion', as permitted by UK 'Immigration Rules', but were there any restrictions placed on you at that time? Did the UK Immigration Officer give you any papers telling you to 'normalise' your status in any way?
It may be just that you are having to wait for a backlog to be cleared, and your FP will arrive as normal soon. You should be able to check its progress online, but don't hold your breath. Just this month, my wife had already been in the UK for 3 days before UKBS confirmed her FP had been issued. Good luck with yours.


Yes I do have EU Family Member Residence Card but airlines don't make boarding without having an EEA Family Permit from U.K because U.K doesn't recognize residence cards from other member states and I tried to go to U.K from Cyprus twice by Easy Jet and Ryanair but they didn't let me fly...I was have residence card of EU Family Member issued by Cyprus too..That's the reason I have applied EEA Family Permit from Latvia..and yes both time I tried to fly with my wife..and this time I also want to go to U.K with my EU wife, Actually I want to go to U.K with my wife to get settle there but in my application I just mentioned that I want to go to U.K for visit because if I told them that I want to work there then might be they refuse my application immediately..Anyway today British Embassy in Riga(Latvia) called me and made an interview of 45 minutes and they also ask questions from my wife as same for around 45 minutes...We are satisfied with the interview and lets see what goes next...I read all of your conversation and all your advice to the Rehan who wants to bring her Non-EU wife to U.K...I really appreciate you for great work and that's the reason I wrote you and told you about my situation.
I made a query to Your Europe Advice team in order to get some information regarding traveling to U.K without having EEA Family Permit together with EU Spouse and having EU Family Member residence card and they replied me..
"Dear Sir/Madam,

Please find below the reply to your enquiry. Please note that the advice given by Your Europe Advice is an independent advice and cannot be considered to be the opinion of the European Commission, of any other EU institution or its staff nor will this advice be binding upon the European Commission, any other EU or national institution.

Dear Mr Sadiq,

Given that you currently hold a residence permit from Latvia, which is your wife s country of origin, you would need to apply for an EEA Family Permit prior to travelling to the UK. If you travel without one, it does mean that you will necessarily be refused entry, but you will be taking a risk that you will face problems at border control. It is also possible, if you will travelling by air or by sea, that the carrier will refuse you boarding if you do not have the EEA Family Permit.

In particular, pursuant to EU law, (Article 5(2) of Directive 2004/38) in order for you to be exempt from the visa requirement when travelling with your wife in the EU you must hold a residence card of a family member issued pursuant to EU law, namely, Article 10 of the above Directive. The above Directive only applies to Union citizens who move to or reside in a Member State other than that of which they are a national (Article 3). (You can consult Directive 2004/38 at: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 123:en:PDF).
As a result, a residence card of a family member under this Directive can only be issued if you are living with your wife in another EU country to that of her origin. For example, when you lived in Cyprus, you had a Residence card of a Family Member of a Union Citizen issued pursuant to this Directive. This card could be used instead of a visa when travelling with your wife within the EU.

As regards your current Latvian card, even though the name and the conditions for obtaining it may be the same, it remains a card issued under Latvian law. This is because your wife is a Latvian national and you are both now living there, so by definition this residence card cannot be a residence card issued pursuant to Article 10 of Directive 2004/38. Thus you cannot use this card to be exempt from a requirement to get an EEA Family Permit for the UK. (You may, however, rely on it when travelling within the Schengen area of which Latvia is part).

The recent Court of Justice judgment in Case C‑202/13 McCarthy (of 18 December 2014), would not apply in your case. That case concerned a residence card issued to a non-EU family member pursuant to Article 10 of Directive 2004/38 (In that case, Mr McCarthy, a dual UK/Irish national lived with his Colombian wife in Spain where she held a residence card of a family member. See: http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/d ... cid=212731 . Even so, the UK does not appear keen to change its policy as regards the EEA Family Member requirement for holders of Article 10 residence cards - see https://www.gov.uk/government/news/pres ... ember-2014).

So in your case, we would advise you, if you wish to avoid problems at border control to obtain an EEA Family Permit prior to travelling. The fact the you obtained one at the border before is irrelevant - at the time you had a Cypriot residence card which was issued under EU law.

It has to be said, that if you do decide to travel to the UK without an EEA Family Permit, the UK authorities should not normally refuse you entry assuming you are together with your wife and both of you have valid passports with you and your marriage certificate (translated into English if it is in a different language). Please note, however, that this cannot be guaranteed. Moreover, there is a considerable risk that the air carrier may refuse you boarding if you do not have an EEA Family Permit.

In particular, Article 5(4) of Directive 2004/38 provides that if an EU citizen who wishes to enter another EU country does not have the necessary travel documents the Member State concerned shall, before turning them back, give such persons every reasonable opportunity to obtain the necessary documents or have them brought to them within a reasonable period of time or to corroborate or prove by other means that they are covered by the right of free movement and residence . Moreover, the Court of Justice of the EU stated in its judgment in Case C-459/99 (MRAX) [...] a Member State may not send back at the border a third country national who is married to a national of a Member State and attempts to enter its territory without being in possession of a valid identity card or passport or, if necessary, a visa, where he is able to prove his identity and the conjugal ties and there is no evidence to establish that he represents a risk to the requirements of public policy, public security or public health [...] You can consult this case at: http://curia.europa.eu/juris/showPdf.js ... cid=265602

What this means in your case is that if you travel to the UK without having obtained an EEA Family Permit and you can prove that you have the right to entry as a family member of an EU citizen, for example by having a marriage certificate and your valid passports, then normally you should not be refused entry. The UK border control officials are instructed not to turn back family members of EU citizens who arrive at the UK border without an EEA family permit as long as they can prove their family relationship and are travelling together or travelling to join their EEA family member in the UK. (See page 6 of the following UKBA Guidance http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary).

That said, however, if you arrive at the border without an EEA Family Permit, you would be taking the risk that the border control officer will actually be satisfied with the documents you produce as being sufficient proof of your right to free movement. For example, currently there is no harmonisation in the EU as regards the format of marriage certificates. There is no such thing as an EU marriage certificate as there is no single format used in all EU countries. Each country issues marriage certificates pursuant to its own rules. It is possible that the UK authorities require a marriage certificate to be apostilled or legalised (and if necessary translated) before accepting it as evidence. It is therefore best to check with the UK authorities in advance if this is the case and if so to take the appropriate steps to legalise your marriage certificate before your departure. You can contact the UK embassy in Riga - https://www.gov.uk/government/world/org ... bassy-riga

Moreover, it is important to note, that if you choose to travel without first obtaining an EEA family permit, it is possible that you will be refused boarding by your air carrier or ship company. We have come across cases in the past where this has happened. The carriers are obliged under UK law (Section 40 of the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999) to ensure that passengers do not board the plane without the necessary documentation. Carriers may have to pay a fine if they let a passenger arrive to the UK without having the required travel documents. See section 1.2 of the following UKBA document: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary). We would, therefore. strongly advise you if you intend to travel by air or by sea, to contact the carrier in advance and enquire as to what their policy is as regards non-EU family members travelling without the necessary travel documents.

On the basis of the above, we would advise against travelling to the UK without an EEA Family Permit. Such a permit should be granted to you quickly and for free without extensive documentation being required (This is provided in Article 5(2) of Directive 2004/38). For information on how to obtain one see: https://www.gov.uk/family-permit/overview .

We remain at your disposal for any further questions you may have on your rights in the EU.

To submit another enquiry, please visit Your Europe Advice, but do not reply to this e-mail.

Your original enquiry was:
Dear Sir,
Am a national of Pakistan and my wife is from Latvia...We got married in Cyprus on 5-Feb-2013, I got issued residence card of family member and my wife got her registration certificate in Cyprus. October 2014 we moved to Latvia and here I got residence card of EU Family Member which is valid for 5 years. I wish to travel to United Kingdom with my EU wife and I want to know that if we travel to United Kingdom both of us having valid passports and residence card of EU Family member issued by Latvia and having marriage certificate with us, will I be allowed to enter United Kingdom without having an EEA Family Permit? On 1st of May 2013 we traveled together from Cyprus to United Kingdom and at Manchester airport the authorities stamped my passport with 6 months entry. I will be able to fly again? I don't know if I have been issued residence card of family member under EU rules or Latvian national immigration rules but my residence card is valid for 5 years and clearly stating that (RESIDENCE CARD OF A FAMILY MEMBER OF UNION CITIZEN). I would also like to know what about ECJ (European Court of Justicce) ruling about Mccarthy case on 18-December-2014 ("Britain cannot impose a blanket visa requirement on family members originally from outside Europe but who have valid EU residence rights, the European court of justice has ruled".)
I checked on Irish official website about visa requirement for Non-EU Family members of EU Citizen, I found that if I travel with my wife then I don't require any entry visa to enter Ireland. Ireland and United Kingdom both are same as EU Member States, if I can travel to Ireland then United Kingdom as well?
Waiting for your answer,



Yours sincerely,

Your Europe Advice"

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